Tag Archive for: women in finance

Judith Barry: Co-Head of Global Equities, Wells Fargo

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Judith Barry“Women put too much pressure on themselves by thinking they have to walk into a role fully capable and qualified, when the reality is that as long as you have the core of what you need to do for the job, you can build and learn,” says Judith Barry. “As long as you’re willing to be vulnerable enough to admit that you’re going to need help or to learn new skills as you navigate, you can take on those bigger jobs.”

Leveraging Her Unique Trajectory

During her sophomore summer at NYU as a political science major, Barry accepted an operations role with Lehman Brothers, staying on during her junior year while attaining her securities licenses. Graduating a semester early, she switched firms and began her career in trading. Trading suited her perfectly: she thrived on how trading was new every day, both fast and dynamically paced, and that it meant working with very smart individuals. After a few years, Barry moved to the buy-side working for a hedge fund. By 29 years old, she became Head of Trading at a hedge fund, before moving to two other firms also as Head of Trading, eventually returning to the sell-side with Wells Fargo. Now with the bank for five years, Barry is Co-Head of the Equities Division, part of Markets, a role she has held since April 2022, as well as Head of Equity Products Distribution.

“I think my unique trajectory gave me the opportunity to learn and hone a lot of skills and, quite frankly, truly understand what clients need and want,” she notes. “Now I’m in a seat to take that knowledge base and help Wells Fargo address all of our clients’ needs and challenges.”

The WomenGoFar Network: Educate, Elevate and Empower

In addition to her Co-Head and Head roles, Barry is also Chairwoman of the WomenGoFar network within Corporate and Investment Banking (CIB) at Wells Fargo. About a third of CIB staff are part of the WomenGoFar network, not only women, but also men who are allies in support of diversity.

The WomenGoFar network seeks to educate, elevate and empower women to navigate their careers internally as well as their personal lives.

“Women choose and have different paths – some are single, some are mothers, some are dealing with elderly parents or siblings. Not everyone wants a senior leadership role, but we’re about empowering women to navigate their own career goals to be effective while also balancing life,” she notes. “It’s important to have the skills to come into an organization and be able to advocate for yourself or to elevate your profile.”

When Barry entered trading in the early 90’s, women were competing for very few trading and sales positions. It was unusual to be a woman trader, let alone a senior trader, and unimaginable to sit at the head of the trading desk.

“It’s still unusual for women to be a co-head of equities at a bank, so I’m very proud of the seat that I sit in and the support I’ve been given at Wells Fargo,” Barry says. “What’s critical is I was able to take my early experience and turn that into sponsorship and mentorship and advocacy for women. Now, rather than all of us running at just one seat, there is the opportunity for women to be successful in any seat.”

WomenGoFar builds collaboration, instead of competition, between women and increases access to senior women leaders, sharing how they navigated to where they are today. In the spirit of ‘if you can see it, you can be it,’ Barry feels it’s her responsibility to be visible in her position and she is intentional about celebrating milestones for women. Sharing her own story – the good, the bad, and the speed bumps – is an important part of how she inspires others. She seeks to excel as a leader, as a mother and as a partner with the people and teams she works with.

Barry is also actively involved in creating inspiring content, understanding the supports women need and elevating awareness around the cumulative experiences of women leaders. One example of programming is a deep dive with McKinsey & Company’s annual Women in the Workplace study. WomenGoFar also hosts internal speaker series on topics like personal wealth and investment management that benefit women, from the early stages of their career. In addition, this past year, CIB hosted their first off-site Women’s Leadership Summit which brought together high-level senior women from the bank and the client side, spotlighting important female clients across the spectrum of Wells Fargo.

Flexibility, Resilience And Communication

“Especially as a trader, or someone in finance, you need to be incredibly resilient to navigate the up and down turbulence of the marketplace,” Barry says. “It takes flexibility to understand how to approach things but also resilience when things don’t go your way. You need to be able to pivot and get back on track so that you can achieve the goals that you set.”

Back on the trading desk, where each decision was being made with heightened urgency, engagement often took the form of yelling. But as she moved to managerial and leadership roles, she worked on elevating her communication skills – whether navigating smaller conversations in managing people or conveying an important message to a larger audience. She’s also realized how important it is to value her own voice.

“When I first was on a trading desk, I was often attempting to embrace or to emulate what my male peers were doing. I thought that in order to be successful, I had to be them,” she reflects. “Then I realized that it was incredibly important to have my own voice and realize that I didn’t need to do what they were doing in order to be successful.”

Being Confident and Finding Your Voice

“I walk into every new thing I do with an understanding of ‘I know what I know’ but ‘I know what I don’t know,’ too,” says Barry. “I’m comfortable about being vulnerable enough to ask people to help me.”

She continues, “Women put too much pressure on themselves by thinking they have to walk into a role fully capable and qualified, when the reality is that long as you have the core of what you need to do the job, you can build and learn. As long as you’re willing to be vulnerable enough to admit that you’re going to need help or to learn new skills as you navigate, you can take on those bigger jobs.”

Citing the famous study that women apply only if 100% qualified (while men apply with 60% of qualifications), Barry notes: “I think it’s important to have self-awareness and be self-reflective but, more importantly, you have to have confidence.”

Barry feels being an extrovert helped her to find her voice and to self-advocate, and everyone needs to learn that. She is conscious of the introverts who are incredibly talented and make significant contributions but often aren’t as adept at being cheerleaders for their accomplishments.

“Find someone who is both a sponsor and a mentor. A lot of my success comes down to finding those people who see your contributions, see the things you do and see the skills that you offer,” she notes. “It’s having that opportunity to go to them for advice, but also make sure that someone is speaking on your behalf in the rooms that you aren’t in. You can learn to advocate for yourself, but it’s important that you also have people advocating for you.”

Get the Feedback You Need to Grow

Barry brings empathy and vulnerability and confidence and candor into any room and is commanding. She feels “a compliment is nice, but feedback is a gift” and is tougher on the women she is closer to. Barry feels managers have shied away in recent times from giving critical feedback, especially to women, but it’s critical to growth. So also relies on a good dose of humor.

“If you’re not getting feedback from your manager, go ask for it. Make it so that they are given permission to give you feedback because you’re only going to get better,” she advises. “Feedback isn’t personal. It’s professional and possibly data-driven feedback.”

“Be Intentional and Be Exceptional”

Barry would advise women to take more moments to sit back, pause and reflect before taking the bigger steps, personally and professionally, and to constantly check in on their capacity and ability to do more: think in terms of one, three and five year plans. Barry also emphasizes women be mindful of the people they are connecting and working with, their experiences and their background.

She advises women, “Be intentional and be exceptional. It’s incredibly important for women to understand that if you want to hit a certain level of success, you are going to have to really lean into things,” she says. “That phraseology has become commonplace for women, but it’s not a woman thing and it’s not a man thing. It means that when you are going to do something in life, you should want to be exceptional at doing it. And you should be intentional about how you get there.”

Barry enjoys a couple of trips a year with her family and teenage children. She loves disconnecting from work and immersing her family on city trips in Europe. She says her family is into learning trips, as culture and history buffs, far more than beach trips. Recently they visited Northern Ireland and Portugal. She also values ‘me time’ in helping her to show up whole for her family and at work.

“It goes back to that word intentional – I’m intentional in what I do and how I work and I have to be intentional about carving out my spare time.”

Fitness is a top priority for her, including long hikes often accompanied by great conversation with a friend. She also ‘confesses’ that she teaches a bootcamp class based on karate to women every Saturday morning, so it’s women’s empowerment over roundhouse kicks, too, for Barry.

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Amber Hairston: Agency Underwriter, PGIM Real Estate

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Amber Hairston“For this moment, while employers are asking you to bring yourself to work, do it. Do it now. Do it today,” says Amber Hairston. “The hope is that this is a movement, not a moment. But time is of the essence, so do it. It will pay dividends.”

In honor of National Coming Out Day on October 11th, we share Hairston’s experience on freeing yourself into authenticity. 

Seeing the Hurdles Before They Come

Graduating during the global financial crisis and determined to exit the social confines of her rural Virginia hometown, Hairston took a position in marketing and communications. But “in typical Millennial fashion,” she made a network connection on Twitter who saw her as suited to commercial real estate finance and directed her towards an opportunity. In 2015, she then moved to PGIM, where she ascended across four positions within six years.

“I was redirected to the path that was intended for me,” reflects Hairston, who had planned to study business before diverting towards communications. “I think of myself now as a different kind of storyteller.”

As an underwriter, Hairston pitches deals to loan approvers after careful assessment of a property, who’s operating it, the market, and other financial risks. Attributing her work ethic to her parents, Hairston prides herself on attention to detail: “I’m very thoughtful in assessing what the hurdles are. I don’t always like to call them ‘risks’ necessarily. I call them ‘hurdles’—these are the hurdles, and this is how we can and will clear them.”

The volatility in the domestic and global economy, and the impact on the real estate investment marketplace, has definitely provided challenges to step into—and Hairston finds that exhilarating. While she won’t speak the most in a meeting room, when she does, she has reflected and has something powerful to say.

Time management and foresight have been her boons. “There’s nothing that I haven’t thought about when I’m underwriting a deal. There’s nothing that I encounter that I haven’t at least entertained as a possible hurdle. I’m never caught flat-footed or surprised.”

“Dropping the Weight Vest” To Rise in Authenticity

Reflecting on her desire to stretch beyond home as a teenager, she says, “It was a very black and white space in a literal and figurative sense. There wasn’t a lot of space for a queer woman of color in the town that I came from, and I knew that I could not grow in the ways that I needed to grow in that environment,” says Hairston. “D.C. just made a lot more sense, and it was my dream city in the United States.”

But while having left the confines of her small town, Hairston in some ways brought the burden of constraints within her to D.C.—until the pandemic.

“I kept the queer part of myself under wraps for so long. I tried to be something else and it was exhausting. And it’s not because of PGIM – this is the box that I grew up in, a limited view of what a woman can and should be, what they should look like,” says Hairston. “But the pandemic changed everything. We were at home and there was nobody to see me. There was only the work. It felt like I had been walking around with a ‘weight vest’ for years.”

Hairston recalls a moment when she was overwhelmed with work while colleagues were away and she needed all of herself: “I think that was the moment that everything changed because I didn’t have a choice. I had to take off the vest at that moment to power through.”

She continues, “Then as we started to return to the office in late 2021, I just told myself I wasn’t putting it back on. I decided I was done with it.”

“In a virtual setting and with all the focus on diversity, equity and inclusion, I was ready to bring the breadth and depth to my experience to bear as a queer woman of color.”

That choice has impacted her relationships across the organization and the industry: “My relationships wouldn’t be as meaningful personally or impactful professionally had I not brought everything to the table.”

And it’s impacted her performance and visibility: “I’ve never been a stronger performer. I draw so much power from all the things that make me different. I used to view it as a disadvantage, but it’s so essential to how I’m able to show up, how effective and efficient I am, and the impact that I’m able to make. I draw from everything, and to have not done that for so many years was a detriment to my performance.”

Reflecting overall, she says, “It sounds sad this box that I, in part, put myself into, the unnecessary weight that I carried for so long, but the upside is maybe I can run faster and jump higher than I ever thought I could.”

Evolving Her Work Relationships From Within

As Hairston has become more comfortable in taking up space in a way that is authentic to herself, she’s feels she’s allowed others to do the same.

“Historically, I’ve been really hard on people. I could be pretty demanding and have really high expectations,” reflects Hairston. “I’m not sure that’s changed, but with the pandemic and everything, the way that I approach it has changed. I’ve had to take it easier on myself and that’s translated to other people.“

Reflecting deeper, she shares, “My harshness was a reflection of how I was talking to myself. Now that I’ve reined in my own self talk, I’m more patient, compassionate and thoughtful in how I get the best out of others, because that’s ultimately what I want.”

Empowering Others Beyond Yourself

Hairston feels blessed by an abundance of mentors and sponsors who had her best interests at heart, even when it meant losing her: “I think a lot of people see those who support them, whether consciously or unconsciously, as tools for their own growth and advancement and production. But there have been many people, at many turns, who let me go even when it was going to make things uncomfortable for them. They wanted to see me rise.”

She wishes to take that with her, “There are people in this organization, and across the industry, who have altered the trajectory of my career by presenting me with an opportunity or a challenge. That’s the type of impact that I want to have,” she says.

“Part of the responsibility of leadership, whether you’re the CEO or have one direct report, is to develop people and I hope I never lose sight of that.” It’s also important to her to be a steady presence that others can call on when they need anything.

Hairston is inspired by leaders who embody vulnerability and transparency. “They have the confidence to give you the latitude for mistakes and really allow you to grow,” she says. That latitude has looked like saying her name in rooms she can’t be in and risking putting their name behind hers while advancing her into new challenges.

She traveled broadly before the pandemic – from Costa Rica, Dubai, and Cape Town to London and Zurich. While more grounded during recent times, she’s explored cultures through food and suspects she’s read about 35 books in the last year and a half.

A sci-fi fantasy and Harry Potter fan, she enjoys V.E. Schwab and sometimes reads young adult fiction to appreciate the diversity of representation that was absent when she was growing up. Though never a “dog person,” she was lovingly coerced into puppy parenting. She and her partner have a seven-month-old Bichon Frise named Artemis.

By Aimee Hansen

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Valeria Vitola: Managing Director, Anti-Money Laundering Region Head – Latin America (Except Mexico), Citibank

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Valeria Vitola“Any difference you think you may have is not a shortcoming. It’s always your springboard,” says Valeria Vitola. “You have to embrace that diverse part of you, because it’s only through diversity that we thrive.”

Born and based in Guatemala, Vitola speaks about why you have to dig even deeper to understand any problem, moving from shame to pride from the inside-out and the true value of bringing your difference to any situation.

Making a Societal Impact

Valeria comes from an Italian family who fell in love with the textiles of Guatemala and began a textile factory and textiles related industries in the country. Coming from a history of family-owned business, she never envisioned herself at a multinational company.

Now, twenty-two years have passed since accepting her initial offer and postponing her master’s degree indefinitely for the experiential MBA of Citi. Before working in anti-money laundering/financial crimes prevention, Valeria had witnessed the consequences of corruption in her country and found meaning in work that helps to narrow the inequalities that it helps to create.

“I am from a country where corruption impacts society – contributing to a gap between those who have lots and those who have not even a dollar a day to live, and denying access of vital services such as health, education and safety,” she says. “For me, to be in the frontline, making sure that the financial institution that I work for is not used by criminal organizations to launder money, or move proceeds, really feels like having an impact on society.”

Getting Way Underneath the Problem

Valeria brings unexpected diversity to the table – she’s a woman, she leads Latin America from Guatemala (even though Guatemala is not a major regional hub for Citibank), English is not her first language and she is part of the LGBTQ+ community.

“Being from a diverse environment allows me to see everybody’s perspective from a different angle, with empathy,” says Valeria. “I’m a good listener, so my leadership begins with listening. I’m really interested in understanding not only the job and the problem that people are bringing to the table, but also the whole situation they’re experiencing when they bring the problem.”

This proves especially valuable when conducting financial crimes risk assessment on client prospects and transactions. Her ability to get underneath a situation, and ask the critical questions, is one of the key skills that has supported both her career and her life.

“I like to take complex problems and divide them into simpler ones, and I like to do that very fast. Every single problem, no matter how big, can be dissected, once you understand the root cause,” Valeria says. “But when you think you know the cause, you have to dig deeper and deeper. Once you have the root cause, everything else gets easier. You can find the paths to resolve the problem.”

Speaking to a skill that applies in all areas of life, Valeria likens this analytical skill to what empathy asks of us – when it comes to understanding why a person is feeling or behaving a certain way, and not jumping to a conclusion.

“The brain works in a way that sometimes likes to trick you into into thinking that you already know what the problem is,” she says. “But once you go layer after layer after layer, you identify there’s always something deeper. You usually have to go at least three layers, to make sure you’re addressing the true causes of the problem.”

Valeria also possesses an instinct for accountability: “I’m that person that when I see the ball being thrown, will run, catch the ball and make sure that I don’t drop the ball until it gets delivered to where it needs to be.”

Being a Leader is For Others

Vitola confesses that as an economist, what drew her into her profession was the notion of working all by herself, at a desk, analyzing numbers, with nobody reporting to her.

She stared at Citi as a sole contributor and she says that during her tenure she sought positions where she did not have to manage others. Reluctant to be working with and be responsible for so many others, Vitola remembers what her female boss and mentor, told her: “You have to believe that you are enough and more, and that you need to inspire people – and not for your sake, but for the sake of the people that are below you.” And that is how Valeria now leads a group of around 400 financial crimes professionals in over 18 different countries.

Before she speaks in front of an audience or accepts a role with more exposure and responsibilities, Valeria remembers those words. While working with others can be energy-absorbing and disruptive to an introverted disposition, she has come to understand her mission is not about tasks, but inspiring people to achieve their own whole potential, which is part of why listening has become essential.

180 Degrees From Shame To Pride

Within her family and her work, Valeria never felt held back by being a woman. Being comfortable sharing about her family and personal life as a lesbian, however, has taken longer to relax into.

“Back in the 90’s, I don’t think I knew another lesbian, not only in the financial industry but the whole country, so I felt very insecure about letting people inside of my world,” she says. “Citi is an organization that really embraces and encourages diversity, and how diversity brings different views to the table, so it was never about Citi. It was complicated for me because of fears related to my traditional catholic upbringing, my family, my friends and society in Guatemala. Coming out of the closet has been the most terrifying decision I’ve taken in my career.”

Last year, a photo of her family, including her 17 year old daughter and her ex-wife, appeared on the cover of Citi’s annual diversity report. Vitola says that her daughter, Alessandra, has been her greatest teacher: “She’s shown me the path of openness. She’s never been ashamed of her diverse family and has always introduced me as her mother.”

Valeria now feels that pride is the opposite of shame, and the journey towards becoming who you are also includes leaving behind the isolation of shame, which she too long imposed on herself in the workplace. If she has one regret, it’s that she held back for so long, only to suffer stress and fears around her identity, when in the end, it didn’t matter to any of her colleagues, only to her. If she could go back, she’d bring her whole self from day one and hopes that being more visible now shines a light for others, especially those based in countries where it might be more difficult.

In all ways, she’s now come to see her differences as an asset, and encourages those she mentors to do so, too.

“If you have a room full of people thinking the same way, with the same upbringing and same everything, the solution that you’re going to attain is going to be very limited.” she says, “So, you have to embrace who you are. Bring your difference to the table because that is what really adds value to an organization, to a meeting, to a friendship, to anything. That diverse point of view is what makes everything grow.”

Leading and Doing with Heart

Valeria is inspired by how Jane Fraser, CEO of Citi, leads with empathy, giving everybody a seat on the table, and caring about all stakeholders.

“I love having a leader with heart, more than one that just executes,” says Vitola. “Instead of having a chain, like an army, it feels more like a room with friends and family, where everybody is heard and all opinions are taken into account. But someone is responsible, deciding when we’ve all been heard enough and saying let’s move together now, behind this higher vision.”

During the beginning of the 2020 lockdown, and grounded from the three weeks a month she used to spend traveling, Valeria initiated a spare time challenge with her 400 strong Citi team and family, inviting everyone to share their personal interests, as a way of staying connected. The effort was then replicated in other areas and regions of Citibank.

Akin to her fascination of going deep into the mechanics of a problem, one of her own passions is restoring old and defunct machines – from the original espresso machine to a 1960 Vespa (which she rides on the city streets of Antigua, Guatemala on her weekends) – including sourcing all the technical hard-to-find parts they need to work again. As a girl, she watched her father and grandfather repair machines for the textile factory, often with parts imported from Italy that took weeks just to arrive.

“I have a personal satisfaction in bringing something back to its old shine and glory – to see the inside of a machine and how it works, from the time before electronics,” she says. “It’s a tribute to the ingenuity of the people that designed the machine to bring it back to life.”

Valeria is a scuba divemaster and also loves gardening, because it offers many transferable lessons and helps her stay in the present moment, from planting a seed, to waiting for weeks (with trust) until it germinates, to giving it the space to grow, to cultivating the fruit and making marmalade to share with and gift to friends: “Going from the seed to the product, with love, is like sharing a part of me, of my time, of myself.”

By Aimee Hansen

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Leveraging a Bicultural Background and “Celebrating” Diversity: Akiko Koda’s Story

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Akiko KodaThe chief of staff for Japan discusses her time at Goldman Sachs and shares career advice in the latest edition of The Glass Hammer.

“I have a bicultural background – I lived in Queens, NY until I was 10, and then my family moved back to Japan, where I have lived ever since,” shared Akiko Koda, chief of staff for Goldman Sachs in Japan. “I was motivated to apply to Goldman Sachs due to my prior experience growing up in both the US and Japan – I thought I could contribute in a unique way to a global firm and serve as a facilitator between both cultures.”

Koda joined Goldman Sachs as a campus hire in 1994, initially within the Equities Division, as a member of a sales trading team. She gained seniority and held numerous roles within Equities, before moving to the Financing Group within the Investment Banking Division (IBD). In 2008, Koda joined the IBD Advisory Group, and then transferred to the Executive Office in the midst of the financial crisis. At that time, she began her current chief of staff role, and now also serves as co-chief administrative officer for Japan and head of Human Capital Management in Japan.

“My day to day role is focused on ensuring that the Japan office is running effectively and efficiently in all aspects,” Koda said. “Looking ahead, the office will be moving to a new building in the coming years, and we’re excited about further growth in the region – particularly following the launch of the Goldman Sachs Bank USA Tokyo branch earlier this year.”

As the new year begins, Koda shared that she typically selects a word to help lead and rally her team around, noting that for 2022, she selected “Focus.” “I believe that by focusing and prioritizing our work and the output, we can continue to make progress,” Koda said. “Given we have now entered the third year of the pandemic, I think it is important to focus on what we can control, rather than what we cannot, and focusing on what is important to you and on what brings you joy during this challenging period.”

Supporting Goldman Sachs’ Focus on Recruiting, Retaining Talent

Commenting on the firm’s focus on recruitment, Koda shared: “Our Japan entity was voted the ‘Best Financial Firm to Work For’ by both potential campus hires and former employees.

This is an incredible recognition of our business over the last 45 years.” She added: “The firm has a long history of hiring campus hires who go on to lead the business – several members of the Japan leadership team are campus or MBA hires.”

Koda noted that her own experience at the firm has included extensive, firm-provided coaching. “I was a member of the firm’s first class of VP LAI, or Vice President Leadership Acceleration Initiative, in 2004. Participating in the program helped me to understand how I could be a better leader,” she said. “Throughout my time at the firm, I’ve asked Pine Street, the firm’s leadership development group, to help me evolve my leadership style, and received a lot of helpful and candid feedback from my coach.”

She noted that during her time at Goldman Sachs, she has aimed to pass along the guidance she has received over the course of her career by serving as a mentor to others, both to individuals based in Japan, as well as those in other countries. Koda notes that she regularly reminds junior professionals of the importance of soliciting feedback and guidance from a variety of mentors: “Think of your mentors as your Board of Directors.”

Koda also shared that mentors, managers and colleagues have all helped her progress throughout her tenure at Goldman Sachs. “I haven’t come this far in my career without the help of many people – I’m incredibly grateful to those who have helped guide and support me throughout my time at the firm.”

Finding Time For Herself – and Her Community

Koda shared that after being at the firm for several years: “I burned out in 1999. I needed to take a break, and left the firm for a year, and then returned to Goldman Sachs.” She
reflected on guidance she received later on in her career, which has continued to shape her approach to work: “A mentor advised me to be ‘relentless about managing my schedule, and to feel empowered to make my schedule my own.’”

“That advice has stayed with me, and I would recommend others really understand their limits and priorities. You need to take control of your calendar to prioritize what is important for you at each moment. For me, that’s my family,” shared Koda.

Throughout the pandemic, Koda has focused on spending time with her sons – who are aged 8 and 10 – and training their new Pekingese that they welcomed during the pandemic. In addition, she has a “green thumb” and tends to several orchids that call her office home. “When I became a board member of the firm’s Japan entity, I was gifted several orchids from clients – I’m lucky that they continue to bloom each year and remind me of that important
accomplishment.”

Outside of her day to day responsibilities, Koda is also a managing director ally of the LGBTQ+ Network. “When I lived in New York, there were only a handful of Asian students in my school – I was different,” she said. “When my family moved back to Japan, even though I looked like my classmates, I was labeled as a ‘returnee’ and considered not Japanese enough. To fit in, I tried to hide the fact that I grew up overseas.”

Koda noted: “I know firsthand how hard it can be to be considered different. I continue to be an ally to the LGBTQ+ community because it’s so important for each individual to feel comfortable bringing their authentic self to the workplace, and to be welcomed.”

She described the progress the firm has made in fostering an environment where all diverse individuals can succeed, and highlighted as one example the variety of events the firm’s LGBTQ+ Network holds each year, including celebrating Pink Friday. “As a Japanese woman, who grew up in the US and became a devoted ally of the LGBTQ+ community, I feel my own identity and experiences touch on so many aspects of diversity. I want to celebrate them all.”

Learn more about Goldman Sachs’ recent awards and recognitions and the firm’s diversity and inclusion efforts. Listen to an Exchanges at GS podcast, in which Koda discusses the evolution of LGBTQ+ rights in Japan and companies’ efforts to create more inclusive environments.

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Erica Klinkowize: CBNA Treasurer, Citi

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Erica Klinkowize“It can be intimidating in finance when you’re fresh out of college, but I would encourage anyone to not discount their own opinions or gut instincts,” says Erica Klinkowize. “It’s important to differentiate early on between this is who I am and this is who my company is.”

Klinkowize speaks to developing gut instincts, the shorter- and longer-term journeys of networking, and intensive listening.

Hone Your Personal Gut Instinct

After working a short while at Prudential Securities, then at Goldman Sachs for over a decade, moving to Bank of America for seven years, and then to Citi last summer, Klinkowize observed that she, early in her career, internalized a gut instinct that was highly influenced by organizational viewpoints.

She found herself consistently asking what would the company do? While a valuable perspective, she realized it was important to differentiate her own gut instincts as she grew as a leader, so as to discern different perspectives, including what was her own intuition.

“Something would pop up, for example, in a meeting or conversation, and I’d have a negative feeling,” says Klinkowize. “I’d often quash it or question it until I came to a rationalized conclusion or the whole thing dissolved, which is not the same as listening to your gut instinct.”

She intentionally learned, with the help of executive coaching, to develop her gut instincts, recognizing that her emotional responses are often held in her upper stomach where her ribs meet, around her solar plexus: “You should know where your emotions strike you.”

Learning to discern, trust, and develop her gut instincts has been a core component of her leadership journey: “First, you need to be able to identify it: I’m having a feeling. Then you need to name the feeling and ask yourself: What is driving that feeling and is it worthy of speaking up for? Then you ultimately need the self-confidence to speak up, be potentially willing to engage in a disagreement, and simply not question it too much. The more you question it, the more likely you are to miss the appropriate moment to say something, or to lose the feeling entirely. As you move through life, your gut instinct is one thing that stays with you, no matter what you choose.”

Enrich Your Leadership With Exposure

Her background is largely in Treasury, but Klinkowize spent over two years partnering to head up a trading desk for Global Markets at Bank of America before joining Citi and returning to Treasury.

“It’s like riding a bike coming back to Treasury, in that things don’t change that quickly, but I found that I was different,” she observes. “Every experience changes you. Every risk you take, every career move you make, each one enhances your perspective on things, provides you with moments to improve your ability to hone your gut instincts, and increases your understanding of human beings. How you respond in situations changes, and you learn to do things better for everyone around you.”

Klinkowize attributes her recent move to Citi once again to instinct. She loved her team and trading desk journey at Bank of America and the rich connections she made. But when an unexpected opportunity came, along with an interview journey full of sparks and connections, she heeded the call on what was right for her development.

Along with diversifying experiences, she takes inspiration from other leaders and mentors to catalyze her growth.

“I spend time observing the people who I feel are ‘ahead of me’ in a way that I feel matters, and I ask myself what are they really good at – I watch people in meetings, noticing mannerisms, how they sit, how they dress, the speed and cadence of speech, the way they organize a deck or argument. I also note what characteristics I would not want to adopt,” she reflects. “That practice has helped me bring out a wider breadth of traits and abilities within myself.”

Klinkowize feels a big part of her own value as a mentor is her willingness to share openly all kinds of experiences including the most challenging moments of her career, such as going through pregnancy with an unsupportive manager at a previous employer. She sees mentorships as mutually beneficial and useful for reflecting on her own growth.

“Everyone looks at people who they consider successful and thinks it was a straight shot up,” she notes. “But it’s been a very up and down experience. I’ve constantly tried to remind myself that perception is reality and ask myself what am I doing (or accepting) that I need to change, which comes back to gut instinct.”

Network Early and Broadly

While at Columbia working on her MBA, Klinkowize was given the challenge to draw her network, which turned out to be very closed relative to her fellow professional classmates.

“It didn’t really register with me until I got to business school that I needed to network beyond my group and then beyond my organization,” she admits.

A latecomer to networking, initially more comfortable with keeping her head down and doing the work, Klinkowize is now its biggest advocate. She emphasizes the importance of networking early on and broadly – beyond formal programs, beyond your company, beyond your direct area of work.

“When I look back, I saw my (performance) equivalents at Goldman getting promoted faster than I was and only later did I realize that I had done a bad job at networking,” she realizes. “I had done a bad job at those things that felt hard and that I didn’t want to do.”

Klinkowize notes that while she was well-liked, she hadn’t cultivated the professional connections who would be pounding on the table for her at promotion time. Later, she gained that level of sponsorship and really felt the difference in support and validation of having someone put their name and reputation on the line for her.

Getting over her resistance to networking required having patience with the journey: “There’s a short-term experience and a longer-term experience to doing what is hard to do (for you),” notes Klinkowize.

“I’d walk away from a networking session exhausted and needing to recuperate, yet I would have learned new things and heard relatable experiences,” she reflects. “Then, it’s like a butterfly effect. You don’t exactly know how, but every interaction you have with someone makes you feel a certain way and changes your trajectory. It can be five minutes that simply reminds you of something that you forgot about yourself, and it’s revolutionary. Or it’s the fact that you’re now top of mind with that person when the next unexpected opportunity comes up.”

“On the other side of doing the hard thing (networking), you see both how your trajectory changes,” says Klinkowize, “and how it becomes more natural to you.”

Model Presence and Perspective

Klinkowize emphasizes the importance of intensive listening: “It’s about deep breathing, calming yourself, listening and not getting caught up in the chaos or the transactional nature of things but instead sitting back and observing the whole thing.”

She feels team members look to leaders for broadness and expansiveness, and embodying yourself in a meeting as a leader sets a tone for the team in terms of moderating stress.

Klinkowize feels intensive listening also helps her hear people on many levels beyond their words, and she tries to “hear with her gut” – for example, catching that moment when someone on the team suggests an idea and she knows intuitively, that’s it.

Despite days of back-to-back meetings, Klinkowize has stopped multitasking 75% of the time, noting that while her days may take a little longer, her stress levels have plummeted.

When with her daughter, her practice is to be fully present and immersed. She has come to appreciate, and actively chooses to spend, more time outdoors, along with their dog, Ash.

By Aimee Hansen

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Jessica Titlebaum Darmoni: Senior Manager, Head of Marketing, ErisX

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“You should always ask for more when you’re talking about salary,” advises Jessica Titlebaum Darmoni. “You want to demonstrate that you are willing to negotiate for the best rate, for yourself and for them.”

Darmoni speaks to self-educating herself on derivatives, the value of finding your culture match and why asking for more is an astute move.

From Creative Writing to Listed Derivatives to Crypto

Darmoni is a true self-taught financial professional.

After graduating from the University of Maryland with an English-Creative Writing degree, and a backpacking tour of Southeast Asia, she entered into the niche market of listed derivatives. Her CV was picked up online for a marketing role at a technology consulting company. Without knowing much about derivatives or having any industry connections, Darmoni found herself inside an exclusive corner of finance.

At that time, she began reading an industry newsletter published by a journalist/broker John Lothian to learn more about the listed derivatives space. After asking for an internship and working part time for John Lothian News, she went on to become the Head of Sales. Concurrently, thanks to a lot of networking for her role, she was also writing and interviewing for theglasshammer.com from near its inception and for over a decade. She credits a lot of what she has learned to John Lothian as well as The Glass Hammer founder Nicki Gilmour.

She continued to read the Financial Times, thanks to a three year gifted subscription, and has now read the analog paper for sixteen years on a daily basis. She also went back to school for a Masters in Journalism and grew her network in the derivatives space. One of her mentors Karen Wuertz gave her a career-changing piece of advice: get involved with an industry activity.

In 2009, along with her co-founder Leslie Sutphen, Darmoni created the non-for-profit networking organization Women In Listed Derivatives (WILD). At over 1200 women strong, the organization promotes networking and relationship-building among women in derivatives through social, educational and mentoring events.

Reframing the Salary Negotiation

“One of the things WILD taught me was that you should always ask for more in salary negotiations,” recommends Darmoni, who never used to realize how important it was to do so. “In fact, companies could almost expect it, because if you’re on the other side and working for the company, they want you to get them the best deal and ask for the best price. So you want to show that you are willing to negotiate, for yourself and for them.”

She credits a WILD mentor Pat Lunkes for teaching her that when you reframe the salary discussion as part of the interview, it’s not a risk to ask for more but rather a risk not to. Braving the conversation provides another opportunity to qualify yourself and set a tone around your value.

Hearing The Feedback That is Hard To Hear

Darmoni has come to value receiving the feedback that can be hard to hear. She finds even soliciting feedback by asking “why the no” can be very constructive and valuable.

“I used to hate feedback, but I think feedback and constructive criticism is so important. You may have really good intentions and just not know you’re doing something that isn’t working for you,” she says. “The feedback may be really hard to hear and digest, but sometimes it comes from a great place. Even if you may not agree, it’s good to hear it.”

Darmoni provides the personal example of being highly responsive to communication as a matter of practice. It would have been her habit to reply to a message as soon as possible, acknowledge receiving it and promise to come back with a response if she didn’t yet have one, to feel she had closed the loop. Her direct boss challenged her to break this habit and give pause before responding at all.

Now, rather than respond immediately, she steps back and responds only when she has reflected and is ready. Not only does this give her spaciousness for more thought, it shifts her value equation to her insight and expertise, rather than her availability, and helps her clarify her thinking because she’s not focused on just being responsive.

Finding Your Own Cultural Fit

Looking back on her career path, Darmoni stayed in one position for only eight months, when the cultural mismatch was both clear and painful. She emphasizes not to see a poor fit as a missed mark in your journey, but as guidance along the way.

“One of my career goals is to be a Commissioner at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and I was working for a related regulatory agency. At the time, it felt like such a failure, and I was really disappointed that it didn’t work out,” she recalls. “Now I’m actually very proud of my time there. I think everybody has something on their resume that just didn’t work out the way they thought it would. I went on to find the cultures that I did fit in with.”

While it took getting past the feelings of wanting it to work, Darmoni is glad for the contrast of experiencing a culture she did not thrive in: “I know the dynamic of a team and how important that is, and I’m so grateful for where I am now.”

Shaping a New Asset Class

Darmoni currently works at ErisX, a U.S. based exchange and clearinghouse for crypto spot and derivatives markets. With her current focus on crypto, Darmoni enjoys helping to build a new asset class from the ground up: “Things are still shaking out. The leaders and players are still being developed, and we don’t yet know for certain what the major plays will be.”

As a way to explain Bitcoin, she cites the comparison between gold and Bitcoin as digital gold. Both involve mining, both are fixed in quantity and both have costs associated with mining and storing, so require hedging of risk.

With her passion for regulation, Darmoni would personally imagine there is valuable friction to come from the meeting of the established financial markets and the emerging world of unregulated crypto, though both may have to adjust how they approach the other.

She has a personal hunch that the crypto disruptors might even offer unexpected help: “My personal opinion is that decentralized initiatives may have thought-provoking solutions for problems that the established financial markets have and are working to solve.”

Darmoni admits that her 16-year self-driven love affair with finance, and especially derivatives, comes down to fascination with how much reach the market has in setting the prices of our daily lives and yet how little people know about the market itself, which makes it a powerful industry to be a part of.

The Value of Being Personally Motivated

During a Peloton ride with Robin Arzón that focused on finding your motivation within, Darmoni realized how much she resonated with being internally driven.

“I did not have a financial background so I learned mine through reading, asking questions and establishing relationships. I didn’t know a single person in finance or derivatives, whereas everybody knows everybody in my industry,” she says. “Aim to build relationships with mentors and sponsors. I’ve been lucky to have maintained great relationships with people that have helped me.”

While she used to find FT Weekend’s How To Spend It too frivolous, she admits she treated herself to a wellness retreat she found amidst its page for her 40th birthday.

This woman is even finding her vacations through her passion.

By Aimee Hansen

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“Be Present and Be Bold” – Advice From Nicole Pullen Ross, PWM Partner, Goldman Sachs

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Nicole Pullen Ross“For two years in my bathroom, there was a post-it on my mirror that said “Partner,” shared Nicole Pullen Ross, region head of the New York Private Wealth Management (PWM) business at Goldman Sachs. She also leads the PWM Sports and Entertainment Solutions (SES) offering.

Ross, who was named partner in 2020, said of her experience being promoted: “My career has been focused on working hard for our clients and our business. To be named partner in 2020, and recognized and rewarded for my hard work and dedication to the firm, was an extraordinary accomplishment.”

Identifying a Need – and Founding a Specialty Offering

Ross, who joined Goldman Sachs in 1999 after a stint at JP Morgan and business school, was focused on advising individuals and families within PWM. Over the course of her career, she honed her skills as a Private Wealth Advisor (PWA). Ross now serves as region head of the New York PWM business, and in 2018, led the effort to found the PWM Sports and Entertainment Solutions offering.

“We founded the offering with the aim of supporting the complex financial needs of athletes, entertainers and those in the industry,” Ross said. “We were confident Goldman Sachs could provide differentiated services and advice to this unique client group.”

“I always remind myself what a privilege it is to be busy doing such extraordinary work with so many incredible clients,” Ross said.

The Importance of Being “Bold” and Investing in Women

As she gained seniority throughout her career, Ross became aware of what an important role being “bold and confident” has on an individual’s career. “When I began my career, like many women, my confidence was tied to how much I thought I knew about a topic,” she said. “Now, I appreciate that there is a combination of things that are important – you have to be excellent and be a content expert, but you also need confidence in your own voice, be present and be bold, in order to be seen as a leader.”

PWM’s launch of WRAP – or Women Reaching Accelerated Potential – was referenced by Ross as one way in which the business aims to support women’s career growth. “WRAP was founded by women within PWM, for women within PWM, with the goal of helping more women become successful PWAs,” Ross said. “By connecting participants with senior PWA mentors and other senior individuals across the firm, and equipping them with the skills to be successful, we’ve had great success.” She noted that “some of PWM’s most successful advisors” are WRAP alumnae.


Ross added that as a partner, she also serves as a mentor to a greater array of individuals across the firm. “The expectation from colleagues that they have access to leadership is one of the things that is special about Goldman Sachs,” Ross said. “The opportunity to engage with more junior members of the firm and provide advice and perspectives to more people is one of the most rewarding aspects of my transition to partner.”

Delivering One Goldman Sachs to Clients

Commenting on her team’s focus on delivering “One Goldman Sachs” to clients, Ross said: “I’m very excited about the work we’re doing across the firm tied to the One Goldman Sachs initiative. We aim to bring one firm to our clients, with a seamless approach in terms of how they receive advice and guidance.”

Within PWM, Ross also shared the business hopes to “extend a sense of familiarity and community among our clients” and cultivate “authentic, trusted relationships” in order to best serve them. She noted that PWM is doing this in several ways, including by developing tailored initiatives to target select client groups.

Ross referenced the recent launch of In the Lead, a platform providing insights, resources and advice to empower ultra-high net worth women to take the lead in their wealth, philanthropy and legacy as one such initiative. She also mentioned PWM’s focus on inclusive wealth, in which the firm aims to be the advisor of choice for diverse clients. “We want to ensure that our clients feel our platform and advice is aligned to and supports their diverse interests and needs,” Ross said.

Beyond the Day-to-Day

Ross also serves as the Americas head of the firm’s Black Network. She noted the network works alongside groups throughout the firm, including Human Capital Management. The Black Network “strives to accomplish important work related to the recruitment and retention of Black professionals at the firm,” Ross said. “I’m encouraged to continue this work, particularly as the firm just announced our most diverse managing director class ever – but there’s still more work to be done.”

Outside of the office, Ross prioritizes spending time with her family. “Our hobby is being together – my children are teenagers now, and I know they’ll be off to college in a few years,” she said. “Throughout the pandemic we were able to maximize our time together, which I really valued, and continue to do so even as things are opening back up again.”

In addition, Ross serves on the Board of Trustees of the Brookings Institute, Hampton University and the United Negro College Fund.

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Grace Lee: Treasurer & Head of Financial Planning and Analytics, S&P Global

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Grace Lee“I’m completely open to, and actually encourage, my team telling me when I’m wrong. I invite them to convince me that I’m wrong. I love that!” says Grace Lee. “I want us to have the best ideas, and that’s only possible when we are all contributing, debating and challenging each other.”

Lee speaks to ramping up the opportunity for responsibility, why motivating others makes the real difference in impact and why the ability to have a constructive relationship with healthy debates means you must be willing to challenge and be challenged.

Following The Call To Responsibility and Impact

“You do things for three years and then you look for a new challenge,” laughs Lee, recalling what the Head of HR at a previous firm said to her. She is motivated by massive strategic challenges with fast growth curves—and the desire to manage more responsibility while seeing the direct impact of her work.

Having planned to become a lawyer because of her love for formulating a thesis, supporting an argument and conducting a robust debate, Lee deferred law school to follow the investment banking hype out of Columbia University, and took an analyst position in Asia.

While in Asia, she discovered that she was far more drawn to the financial analytics and investor storytelling components of investment banking versus the work she partnered on with international corporate lawyers when on deals.

“The thing that I appreciated about certain aspects of investment banking is you can see the direct impact of your work. When working on an IPO of a company, if the competitive analysis and valuation work you’ve done is compelling, you should see that play out in the markets. Similarly with M&A, if investors deem that the merger makes strategic sense and the valuation is reasonable, you see that reflected in the price performance of those companies,” says Lee. “For me, seeing direct impact is so important.”

After three years in Asia, she moved back to the U.S. headquarters of the same investment bank. Subsequently, she went for a rewarding full-time Harvard MBA, which allowed her to focus on learning and traveling. She highly recommends a full-time MBA, rather than an EMBA, if you have accrued both the experience and finances to give yourself the opportunity.

After Harvard, Lee moved to the equity research group within the same investment bank. The firm had just acquired an asset management firm and she was able to join its financial institutions research team, where she was able to build upon her experiences in investment banking but now, formulate her own theses on which companies made most sense to buy vs. sell. After another few years, she thought “instead of analyzing these companies and the strategic direction that they go, I’d love to participate in the strategy making of a company and see how that transpires.”

She took a big leap to Voya Financial, helping to lead the IPO of the U.S. business for what was formerly ING, a top global financial powerhouse before the crisis.

“In my early 30’s, that was a really transformational experience. We were basically in a start-up environment, but for a massive company with leading businesses,” says Lee. “Before IPO-ing the company, we had to create the story of how the sum of the businesses made strategic sense together, and were far greater than the individual parts.”

When that role eventually evolved to maintenance, Lee moved onto a couple Executive Chief of Staff roles at other firms, before landing at S&P Global, which she came to be familiar with as her mentor from a prior firm had recently joined the company.

Merging Strategic and Analytical Outlook

“Coming from an investment banking and equity research background, we were trained to formulate both the high-level strategic picture, as well as be comfortable with the underlying analytics that support the strategy. For example, the investment case wouldn’t hold for a certain stock if the secular trends for the industry were all deteriorating. It’s valuable to be able to both see the big strategic picture and back that up with analytical horsepower,” says Lee.

Lee feels the ability to influence people is important and something she has honed, as is staying abreast of the macro-environment.

“Our job isn’t static, so to constantly keep educated on how the economy, markets and world is evolving is important,” observes Lee.

Inspiring Greatness In Others

Through both executive coaching and mentorship, Lee has realized that while striving for personal achievement has delivered her this far, the true opportunity for incremental growth and impact now lies in inspiring greatness from others.

One of her mentors shared that a mentor once advised that if you’re operating at 100% as a high achiever, it takes a lot of work to ramp yourself up to 110%. But if a whole team is operating at 70% of their performance potential and you are able to elevate the team to 80%, the incremental impact of that shift is much, much greater.

Lee has embraced this philosophy, particularly as in recent roles, her direct reports and management responsibilities have increased. While she still rolls up her sleeves and does her own modeling or formats her own PowerPoint presentations from time to time, she realized that her impact is no longer measured solely on her performance, but on the camaraderie and achievements of her broader team. “The joy I used to get seeing the price performance of a successful IPO I worked on, I now get watching my employees grow and succeed.  Some of the greatest compliments I have received recently were from my staff who have told me about the profound impact I have had on their professional development.”

More deeply embracing empathy and the softer skills is part of her current leadership approach, qualities which she admits wer not central to her personal achievement mindset.

“Earlier in my career, I focused on quick and seamless execution,” she reflects. “I didn’t much appreciate the softer skills, but now that I oversee a range of initiatives, it is impossible to be that strong individual contributor across all of these. I am also recognizing that what I need to do is empathize and elevate those I work and partner with, as collectively we can all achieve more than any single contributor,” says Lee.

She also notes that leaders she most admires, including executive management at her current company, demonstrate these skills and she feels inspired by them to always do her best.

Setting the Tone And Encouraging Women’s Voices

As a Korean-American woman, Lee is often a unique face as finance in corporate America tends to be white male-dominated. But growing up with a younger brother, all male cousins and having two sons, she isn’t necessarily out of her element.

“At my level you don’t see that many females, but that has not been a deterrent for me. My personality is a bit more direct, and I think that resonates more with my male colleagues,” says Lee. “That being said, the people I’m closest to and develop the closest relationships with are female. The higher you go, there’s fewer women but we really support each other.”

Naturally assertive herself, Lee will often encourage or even nudge her female reports to speak up. “In the reviews I give them, I tell them ‘I know you share good emails and insights with me, but I think everyone would benefit from you sharing those ideas.’”

In the virtual meeting room, she will take the initiative to volunteer other women to speak, mentioning that she knows her female coworker (by name) has ideas to share on this topic. She also IMs with managers and peers when topics come up, either to bounce off possible points or let a colleague know her input would be valued on this topic.

Being Willing to Challenge and Be Challenged

Lee emphasizes the value of being willing to challenge, as well as being willing to be challenged as a leader. “I have strong opinions, but I am the very first person—if you tell me why I’m wrong and give me data points— to say, ‘I’m wrong. Let’s shift.’”

Equally, she is unafraid to challenge her current boss, when she has a different perspective on how to approach an issue. “He’s a very logical man and he doesn’t want ‘yes people, because they add less value than people who will think strategically and then push back. I appreciate this about him and have tried to emulate this in my own management style.”

Lee thinks one of the best and important decisions she’s made is choosing a husband who is also an advisor and coach to her. She also appreciates that he always challenges her, and keeps it real and her grounded. She enjoys spending quality time with him, her six and nine year old sons and also watching Korean dramas.

By Aimee Hansen

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Anna Thomas: Vice President, Private Banking Technology at Brown Brothers Harriman

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Anna Thomas“It’s all about people. Projects, systems, everything else goes away. You might even forget what you were executing back then,” says Anna Thomas, “but people connections can remain even after 25 years, and that is very fulfilling.”

Thomas speaks to managing work and family, the value of executional and relational strengths and how bias often feels like what goes unsaid.

Managing Career And Family

As a lover of mathematics entering into computer science, Thomas worked with a Professor to research computer simulations of ancient mathematical algorithms based on Indian Vedic scriptures when she worked in MIT India.

After coming to the states to attain her Masters in computer science and a few years of work in tech in the telecommunications industry, she moved to apply her skills within the financial services world. But a week into her job at J.P. Morgan, initially as a consultant, she discovered she was pregnant with her second son. The manager at that time was very supportive and continued to give her larger opportunities.

After a C-section, she planned to take a three-month maternity leave, but the firm was going through an intense merger, and they asked if she could return after six weeks. So even in 2003, Thomas found herself remote working on a desktop computer that had been sent to her home, with the close support of her mother with her new baby.

After moving up to VP in Barclays and changes of firm, Thomas took on a Global VP role at Experian in which she managed 200 technical professionals across 13 worldwide locations. She traveled for work, spending only one week each month at the home office in New York. Her husband agreed to take a job close to home to make it all work.

“I had a very supportive husband and very independent kids too,” she says. “When I think about it, I’m don’t even remember how we did it all. My sons were able to do everything other kids did (ice hockey, karate, baseball, soccer) and mom still had a demanding job.”

Preserving Weekends For the Family

Thomas said her secret was not only designating the weekends solely for family time and home, but also making sure she was “home every day” in another way.

“I still wanted them to have home cooked Indian meals and the heritage,” she recalls. “So I would block off Sunday and bulk cook different dinner dishes for the whole week to eat while I was away.”

“Also, I made personal days off and when I was here, I was committed, not on my Blackberry,” she recalls—whether volunteering to read at her son’s childcare or going on a field trip as a volunteer and getting to know her son’s friends and having them over on the weekend.

Skills of Success

Much like her Sunday approach or how she plans out family vacations, Thomas puts a lot of her business success and leadership capacity down to her strategic and executional strength.

“My passion is to plan, lead and execute,” she says. “You stay disciplined and that’s how you can actually get through whatever you need to do.

Simplification has been another asset to her leadership style.

“Being a woman, you come with a different perspective and empathy, a diverse way of looking at decisions,” says Thomas. “You sit around the table and sometimes there are very complex ways of thinking. It’s often easy for me to make it practical and lay out simple, practical solutions.

“Everything starts with the end in mind—everything has to be for the business. I am very client-centric. If I do something, is this going to be valuable for the client? And that’s how I start thinking about anything, any solution,” she says. “How do I get there? What are the issues in between? Everything else becomes the means to get there. How do I go in steps?”

When it comes to failing, Thomas recommends to be agile with failure too.

“I want to see what happens, and if I am going to fail, I want to fail fast, learn from my mistakes and get up and run again,” she says. “Everyone is going to fail at some point. Everyone is going to have their bad projects. Try to just do it in small cycles, learn fast, and then apply your learning and keep moving.”

No Matter the Work, Leadership is About People

Thomas emphasizes that even in a technical or product development role, what you are really working with is people. She feels parenting transfers to help, too.

At the end of the day, any technology, finance, or other field that you’re talking about, is ultimately about the people who do the work,” she says. “To understand people—have empathy with different perspectives, different personalities, and awareness of context—is critical to your success.”

Due to her background, Thomas offers a keen sensitivity to, and ability to navigate, cultural differences.

“I have the benefit of growing up in a different country and being exposed to different cultures, so that helps me to understand and work with cross-cultural teams,” says Thomas. “For example, in Asian culture, unless you actually reach out and ask, someone will often think it’s disrespectful to provide their view of things. I grew up in that culture, so I know and I can actually coax and ask someone to speak up. I can come from that angle.”

For her, the most nourishing part of work is the “people agenda” and mentoring.

“Something I’ve learned is that a mentor-mentee relationship is always a give-and-take. You are teaching and learning from everyone at the same time,” she says. “There’s no age or experiences that are little. There is a perspective of a person. I have the breadth because I managed a number of things, but down the road, you may have the depth of something I can rely on.”

Bias Can Be The Untold Factor

Thomas has often been the only woman in her technology-based team. One of the things she has experienced as an Indian woman in technology is that ethnic and gender bias is not always easy to point at, but often feels like the elusive thing going unstated.

“When you’re put up against a promotion, you’re in the top two, you have nine out of ten credentials and someone else only has seven out of ten and they get it, you wonder. I rarely have that explained, and I’ve had that experience more than once,” she says. “It’s an untold thing. If my performance exceeds all expectations every time, why not? It’s often unclear what the breaking criteria is.“

She has at times received vague feedback as to skills she would need for a role, as other women have spoke to. In a past firm, when a boss she’d worked with across two firms appointed her to a CTO role because of her change-agent capacity, she experienced a senior male peer visiting her office to attempt to intimidate her away from the role.

“I reported him and I kicked ass taking on that role,” she says. Not surprisingly, she has found that attempts at suppression only comes with visibility and achievements.

In any organization, Thomas looks for opportunities to constantly stay current and update her self and her technology proficiency. Growth is a critical objective for her and she has learned to move on from situations where that is thwarted.

Enjoying Home

Thomas is currently enjoying home life with her husband and her 15 year old son. She likes doing the small mundane things she didn’t always have time for all those traveling years, whether errands to the store or Netflix binges. She still keeps her Sunday meal preparation routine, and her 19 year old son requests his favorite Indian dishes from childhood when he visits from college.

By Aimee Hansen

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Nneka Orji: Chief Operating Officer, Morrinson Wealth Management, UK

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“So many outcomes are often the result of sometimes small decisions that aren’t constructively challenged with another perspective,” says Nneka Orji, who is willing to be that voice in the room.

Nneka speaks to speaking up when it’s uncomfortable, why mentoring is a key part of people management, and the value of knowing who you are.

From Consulting to COO

After acquiring a Masters of Engineering degree from Oxford, Nneka went into consulting in 2010, first with Accenture and then with Deloitte UK.

Born in India and having grown up across Nigeria, France, Trinidad and the UK, Nneka loved the variety of working with different people and cultures to address diverse problems at a challenging pace.

She earned frequent promotions across her ten year stint in management consulting. As she kept learning, the lifestyle of business travel suited her.

During her time at Deloitte UK, she did a secondment as Chief of Staff for the Chairman’s office. Considering him her first sponsor—a leader who cared, pushed and supported— Nneka gained insight into the mechanics of being in an influential position, running a large organization and interacting with leaders.

She joined Morrinson Wealth Management as Chief Operating Officer in 2019. Nneka highlights that it’s a misconception that she works only with people with great wealth. Often she’s working with clients who are trying to make the earnings they have work best for them.

“They’re trying to plan ahead and look at: How can I make the most of what I’m earning? How do I build a life that’s in line with what I want to deliver for my family, for my loved ones?” she says. “Giving them the financial education, awareness and savviness to manage their own finances and to live the lives they want is really fulfilling.”

Daring the Discomfort of Using Her Voice

While accustomed from school and engineering to being in male-dominated environments and often the only black person in the room, let alone black female, Nneka says that the playing field of financial services has still compelled her to thicken her skin, become more assertive and use her voice.

Several times, she has braved speaking up in a tough moment—both in support of fairness for others and for herself.

Nneka recalls one compelling example from her consulting days when she was in a meeting focused on the consideration of candidates for promotion. When she heard more senior colleagues vaguely describe why a certain female manager was not ready for promotion—such as from a “gut feel” or because of “cultural fit”—she challenged her seniors to be specific, direct and transparent.

“I said, ‘Why is it gut feel? Why do you think she’s not ready? Have you actually given her feedback?’” says Nneka, recalling they hadn’t. “I said, ‘It’s not fair on that individual to give these vague responses. We need to be really clear. She wants to progress. If there’s concern, it’s only right that we tell her, rather than effectively leading her on.”

“I was definitely challenging beyond the point they were comfortable, and I walked out of the room knowing I had pushed,” she recalls. “It’s not that I had anything to gain personally, but I felt that it’s only fair to everyone to have someone to speak for them, on their behalf. If I was in her situation, who would stand up for me?”

While she could have deferred to her senior colleagues, Nneka chose a clear conscience. Nneka reflects the discomfort was likely because she was touching on affinity bias or another elephant in the room that may have been unconscious, but so often proliferates the status quo.

“These kind of decisions affect people’s careers, successes and progressions, how much they’ll get paid and how much they can save and invest and so on,” states Nneka.

Speaking up for herself, Nneka has stood her ground amidst men twenty years her senior, only to earn their respect from her work. She also once directly expressed disappointment in a senior partner’s response and leadership when after three years of working for him, she approached him to talk an issue with one very difficult female client and his immediate suggestion was she must have done something wrong to invite the conflict.

“I feel it’s important to make sure it’s clear what you will stand or what you are willing to accept, in terms of basic respect,” says Nneka.

Supporting Others To See Their Potential

“I haven’t had formal mentors to be very honest,” says Nneka, though she has leaders to bounce perspectives off of. “But you can put together the strong points that you see in different leaders and create almost your own fictional mentor in that way.”

She’s inspired to emulate the leaders whom she looked forward to working with—who pushed her in the best way and with whom she came to learn more about herself and her abilities.

“I do see mentoring as a core part of managing, because you can manage as a task manager and the tasks will get done,” Nneka notes. “But what I’m trying to do is to be an inspiring leader. I try to instil a sense of raising aspirations; maybe a team member started their career thinking this was your limit, but actually they have so much more potential, if they want to do more.”

Nneka values communication and saying or hearing it like it is, so nobody suffers in silence while their needs go unknown.

When Nneka took on managing others, she didn’t realize how rewarding it would be. “When a team member comes and says I’ve developed so much over the past year because of your influence, it gives me a strong sense of fulfillment.

Nneka has been a formal mentor for over a decade, with the Social Mobility Foundation, working with graduate mentees with a socially or economically challenged background, and also with the Cherie Blair Foundation For Women, working with entrepreneurial women in countries like India or Kenya or Israel.

These experiences have enriched her so much, she also considers them “reverse mentoring”.

“I like to see how different people think and how different people’s life experiences have shaped who they are, and how that informs their thinking,” says Nneka. “There’s something about learning about someone else’s perspective on life, and being open to finding out something that you might not have known. That’s the thing I love the most.”

Knowing Who You Are

Nneka feels her support system, both her family and working with people who have her best interests at heart and gave her a platform, has supported her fast growth.

She recommends being “intentional about choosing who you work with”—seeking out people who accept you for yourself and push you in a good way while having your back.

She feels that early on, her parents helped her to know who she was, down to pointing out the reality that she would often be unique in the room—as a black female in the schools she was in, and in her working life, especially as she moves up in leadership.

“Some people would say you shouldn’t necessarily point out or emphasize the difference,” reflects Nneka, “but I think it was so helpful in terms of me knowing who I was and who I am, and being true to myself. Of course I wasn’t always as confident in this respect and I’ve grown a lot since, but being comfortable in your own skin, in terms of your own history and culture, is critical. As long as you know who you are, you know your motivations, your boundaries and you make decisions in line with these.”

Nneka has worked some long hours, and suspects that subconsciously she has been motivated to overwork as a proactive measure against casual suggestions of gender or ethnic minority initiatives playing into her promotions, a frustrating undermining of accomplishment that black women are more likely to be subjected to.

“Sometimes you don’t have to work as hard as you do to get the outcome that you want,” she has come to realize. “I think that’s probably a lesson I am still learning.”

Nneka loves to travel, workout, dance and listen to both crime podcasts and inspiring podcasts during long walks in the sunshine—such as Oprah Super Soul Sunday, HBR Women At Work, The Wallet, The Tim Ferriss Show.

She’s inspired by “people who find their purpose and commit to positively influencing communities – small or large”.

By Aimee Hansen

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