Marie Carr: Global Growth Strategy, Insurance and Financial Services, PwC US

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Marie Carr“I’ve spent my career helping companies grow in a way that takes advantage of disruption and new trends,” says Marie Carr.

From back when the internet seemed like an insecure and unproven place to do business to Artificial Intelligence (AI), Carr helps companies determine how to grow, particularly by taking advantage of technological changes that redefine customer interactions.

“People now want you to understand them,” Carr says of the client mindset: “I need you to understand me and frame things based not on what you want to sell me but on my unique needs.”

Carr champions adoption of new technologies that can help companies create better experiences for their customers, as well as actionable data that facilitates those positive experiences.

But what’s led Carr to where she is now and how has it related to her choice of careers? She cites motivation, how faith supports her, and how to find and respond to mentorship moments.

A Motivating Mission

“I went to business school to become a better entrepreneur,” says Carr, who decided early on to get her MBA at University of Chicago Booth School of Business.

She soon began to receive feedback that she’d make a great management consultant and realized that interning at a consultancy could support her education. She joined Diamond Technology Partners for a summer and twenty-five years later, long after PwC acquired the firm in 2010, she still loves where she is.

“I’ve been very blessed to work with leadership whose mission I believe in,” she says. “It’s easier to stay when you’re working with leaders who are building a culture that’s consistent with your values.”

She was initially inspired by Diamond founder Mel Bergstein’s vision in “forging a new path.” At the time, it was “unheard of” for a firm to grow to become publicly traded so that employees could own their own stake in it.

“To be able to work in something that you’re good at with like-minded people that also have a mission of greater good,” says Carr, “was a rare combination.”

With PwC, Carr found a new mission—to help build the advisory practice and ensure that what “was excellent about Diamond became part of PwC’s DNA.”

“Ten years later, folks who were younger consultants are coming into leadership positions and living those values,” says Carr. “It’s been a good journey.”

Overcoming Adversity and Keeping Faith

Carr feels her parents and faith instilled within her the ability “to never let temporary circumstances determine what your ultimate success is going to be.”

“Whatever adversity you have to overcome, overcome it,” says Carr, describing her parent’s motto, who both experienced tough challenges in childhood. “You can’t let the fact that there may have been discrimination stop you,” she says.

Raised in faith, Carr learned to trust in a greater power, which has enabled her to be comfortable in herself and have less anxiety than some in a high-pressure field.

“It’s not just about my own ability. I have confidence in and the ability to appeal to a force higher than myself. That’s helped me to be more patient, to put myself in other’s shoes, to not be so hard on myself,” says Carr. “You have to be able to center yourself, because you’re often going to find yourself in an environment that’s not going to affirm you. So, the ability to affirm yourself is really useful.”

Learning from Everyone

“I’ve learned a lot through observation. I’m very much a student of everyone. My dad taught me that ‘even the village idiot can teach you something’,” she says. “As I got older, I learned not to rush to judgment but instead ask, how do I learn from who I’m interacting with?”

She continues, “I’ve also found that people are very generous in helping you if you help yourself. Lots of people have given me advice in the moment, so I became good at getting feedback without being sensitive or defensive,” she says. “I’ve tried to learn from everyone, because there are a lot different paths to success.”

As she’s moved through her career, Carr has realized that she hasn’t always been aware of who’s advocating for her. As a result, she makes a conscious effort to advocate for others who she feels deserve a voice in the room.

Playing sports, particularly basketball, helped shape Carr’s approach. Being on a nationally ranked basketball team in high school meant being open to coaching and learning to do things differently to improve.

“Basketball is a team sport that really requires everyone to be able to fluidly move in and out of roles, that ability to adapt,” says Carr. “It has made me always look for what I could do to draw out the best of someone I’m working with.”

Leave It Better Than You Found It

Coming from a long line of ministers and pastors, Carr approaches management consulting as part of fulfilling her desire to serve.

Her mother advised her to always invest in people. For her, helping companies to grow and adapt is about affecting all the people who depend on the work to support their lives and families. She enjoys helping people and companies reach their highest potential.

Carr has run a financial summer camp on wealth empowerment and financial literacy for several years now, working in the community with younger generations to envision their possibilities.

“We’re accountable to making a difference in the world, says Carr. “You have to leave it better than it was when you got here.”

By: Aimee Hansen

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Silke Soennecken: Head of Risk Management, Commerzbank New York

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Silke Soennecken“You are motivated and grow when you are being challenged,” says Silke Soennecken, “when you have to use your resources to get your head around things you didn’t think would ever happen.”

Soennecken speaks to growing through challenge, retaining your power as a woman and letting go for others to grow.

When Things Turn Upside-Down, Learning Curves Go Up

As a Managing Director at Commerzbank New York, Soennecken is tasked to oversee governance and strategy for all risk management in the region, and is responsible for the bank’s entire North American credit portfolio. Based at a branch rather than head office, she enjoys the vantage point of gleaning how initiatives flow and come together, while gaining insight into areas of risk management that interrelate with her expertise in corporate credit.

As a risk manager, she thinks that despite the challenge, it is precisely the unexpected and unprecedented moments that provide the strongest learning experiences and opportunities to grow your skillset.

She experienced this first-hand in September 2008, when she joined Commerzbank just one month before the financial world fell into crisis, and then again this past year with the pandemic. Now Soennecken approaches these big upheavals with some fascination by observing how various players respond and react to crisis on all levels.

She notes her “extremely analytical mind” gives her the ability to remain curious and agile, as she is naturally prone to dissecting how the many pieces of a system work together and interact with each other—including considering the consequences in a scenario when one piece fails.

Flipping the Worst-Case Scenario

Soennecken had a first-hand experience of a worst-case work challenge, when years ago, her firm initiated a significant restructuring. Consequently, she witnessed a mass exodus of her entire 25 person department over just a few months, including team members she thought she could not afford to lose.

Tasked with restructuring the department, and never imagining she would end up doing it alone, she recalls a “breakdown moment” in the bathroom after the last person announced they, too, were leaving. However, beginning with temporary patches, Soennecken stood up and began to rebuild the entire department.

Although she had a private office, she instead moved her desk to the middle of the open floor, where anyone who joined would have access to her. Only after a three-year journey rebuilding the team did she return to her office with an open door policy.

“Rebuilding was hitting rock bottom where there was nothing left, and then climbing out from there to create a completely new department,” she recalls. “I didn’t know what to do except to put myself right in the middle and build from the inside out. I was just put in charge and swam my way out. But when I look back, I’m proud of the approach I took, and of what I accomplished.”

For Soennecken, the most impactful part of this experience was learning via unsolicited team member feedback about how her collaborative approach positively impacted their individual and collective growth.

Staying Confident as A Woman

“I had the advantage that I found progressive male mentors that supported me,” says Soennecken, “but I also found a lot of opposition along the way for being a woman.”

Having worked in banking for a few decades, she remembers earlier in her career being the only woman in rooms of men where she was asked to pour the coffee. Though she recalls wondering ‘why her?’, the request wasn’t entirely out of the norm at the time, and she wasn’t equipped to confront it like women are today.

“I wasn’t entirely aware that I was sometimes being treated in a way I shouldn’t have been treated,” says Soennecken. “As a consequence, certain elements of confidence were lost along the way that I didn’t notice I was losing, until I look back now.”

Today, she can recognize the minimizing ways in which she was talked to or handled as a woman, and how that wore down her natural confidence, while other habits arose to compensate and created a double bind.

“I ended up being a little harder than I was expected to be. I even had a coach for supposedly being too straightforward when talking to people,” she says, “but I think it was, in part, a consequence of navigating through a world where I had to push with my elbows to try to be heard. Now I know that I could have used a more feminine approach to get what I wanted without having to try to act like a man.”

In retrospect, Soennecken observed she could have used her intuitive and relational skills—such as sensing someone’s feelings about confrontation or mirroring their conversational tendencies—to achieve the influence she instead struggled for.

“Our sensitivity as women can work against us, but I realize I could have used that sensitivity to my advantage in interrelating,” she reflects. “It would have spared me some stress along the way.”

The Danger of Over-Explaining

Soennecken believes that it is important to encourage gender diversity in managerial roles, but on the flip side, women need not be required to champion every woman when it’s more objectivity that is needed.

When asked, one way she’s personally observed how women can undermine their own power is by defending themselves too much in the meeting room.

“We often think we are being attacked personally,” she says, noting many moments when she’s listened to another woman get drawn into over-explaining herself, going further only to lose her ground.

“If you make yourself small by defending yourself too much, by giving a lot of explanation for something that could be a simple answer,” she continues, ”then you lose all your power and the advantage you might have had.”

‘Letting Go’ For Others to Grow

Over the years, Soennecken has adapted from guiding people with a hands-on approach, to guiding people while letting go.

“When you are hands on, you do things a certain way and tend to believe others should do it the same way. But people have different approaches, and it takes time to admit to yourself those approaches are fine, and so are the consequences,” she says. “You are supporting the growth of people by allowing them to also make mistakes. You’re going to support and guide them, but there’s purpose in delegating and giving others the opportunity to grow and shine in their own way.”

As a mentor, she notices when people are stuck: “You see that someone is in the wrong job, but they are afraid of changing, finding the right job and really being happy. They’re making a big effort, but they can’t grow because it’s not what they want to do.”

“The potential is in embracing the unknown, not in staying in their comfort zone, but you get a lot of resistance because most people don’t like change. The success story happens when finally somebody embraces the change that is good for them,” she says. “You can help them realize the potential is there, and trust and support them, but they have to ultimately make the decision.”

When it comes to finding fulfillment at work and advancing up the career ladder, Soennecken feels it’s about going beyond. Being interested and doing “the extra” is what creates the sense of fulfillment for her.

“If you come to work every day and you type five pages because your job is to type five pages, you’re not going to progress,” she gives as an example. “But if you come in every day, and instead of typing five pages, one day you decide the pages could be a different color or a different layout or you can type eight pages or a book, then you grow.”

Never Forget “The Little Heart”

“You cannot have a more loyal employee than if the person has a personal situation, and you show you can be supportive,” says Soennecken. “Never forget about the personal side of the people you work with. It’s what I call ‘the little heart’ and everybody has ‘a little heart’. Very often, I think about ‘the little heart’ of my colleagues, regardless of their role or responsibility.”

When it comes to non-business workplace issues, for example redesigning seating arrangements, she knows certain things are important to people, and if she can accommodate a request, she will. While you can’t please everyone, she has found it makes all the difference to thoughtfully consider all parts of someone in the decisions she makes.

Speaking of little hearts, Soenneken is the single mother of two bright, energetic twin six-year-old girls. She feels the pandemic has helped to highlight what is most important in life and is enjoying the unexpected, but welcome, togetherness with her family.

By Aimee Hansen

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Erika Karp: Chief Impact Officer, Pathstone

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Erika Karp“I think that capitalism has the potential to be exceptionally productive. That said, we’ve messed it up. We’ve distorted it, and it has become a system that is extractive and exclusive,” says Erika Karp. “I think that’s really unfortunate. I want to be a part of a system that is regenerative and inclusive, and I still believe capitalism can be.”

Karp speaks to a childhood love for economics, why ESG takes the ideology out of sustainable investment and being the first out lesbian on her firm’s Wall Street trading floor.

From the Lemonade Stand to the Trading Room

Karp knew from when she was a child that she loved and wanted to be involved in trading and economics.

“While we don’t think about it that way, trading is part of human nature. As kids, we set up lemonade stands in our driveways in the suburbs of New York. Well that wasn’t quite interesting enough,” she remembers. “So I set up a stand with all my old toys, trinkets and baubles. It wasn’t so much about the money, but trading. I loved it.”

When Erika’s sister borrowed money from her as children, she’d pay Erika back with a little interest. And Karp recalls her father, a securities lawyer, getting off the phone with a client and saying: “It’s so wonderful when you’re involved in the stock market and on the phone, and on your word, on your honor, you can do important transactions with millions of dollars.”

Karp remembers that it was on your honor. From six years old, she didn’t know what a stockbroker was, but she knew she was going to be one.

Willing that Capitalism Can be Regenerative

Karp lists her personal values as nature and animals, access to water and the ocean, access to education and healthcare. Towards the end of her first 25 years on Wall Street, which culminated in her becoming Director of Global Sector Research at UBS Investment Bank, she was asked to manage the Socially Responsible Investment (SRI) team.

“I learned organically that when you look at the critical environmental and social and governance factors in a company, in an industry, in a sector – you really do get a lot of predictive insight into the long-term investing process,” she notes. “Being able to align my investment discipline and belief in capitalism with my personal values through the discipline of ESG analysis felt amazing.”

“To evolve capitalism towards something that’s more regenerative and more inclusive definitely takes a systems approach. That means understanding complexity, nuance and interrelationships.” As momentum gathered, Karp began to do work on sustainable investing in cooperation with World Economic Forum, UN Global Compact and the Clinton Global Initiative.

“As I got more involved, I felt a greater sense of purpose and urgency. So I founded Cornerstone Capital Group, which [was] a purpose-built research-driven impact investment advisor,” she notes. After bringing the business to $1.2 billion in assets under management, she took the plunge to merge her impact-focused firm with Pathstone, an independent registered investment advisory firm focused on families, family offices and institutions. It was a symbiotic merger, with Pathstone having a long-standing background in ESG analysis and a strong interest in expanding its impact orientation.

Taking the Ideology Out of ESG

“Years ago, I remember thinking even the word ‘responsible’ implies ideology, it implies right and wrong,” reflects Karp. “So the world of SRI was ideological, political, divisive and tree-hugging, and it just wasn’t adopted as real investing.”

“To some degree, I was subversive. I came to believe that over the long run, ESG factors are fundamentally important to get more predictive insight in the investment process,” she says. “So I was more pragmatic. I didn’t use words like ‘responsible’ or ‘sustainability’ or barely even ‘climate change’. I would talk ‘energy efficiency’ and ‘reputational risk” and ‘political risk’. I knew it was about sustainability in the back of my mind, but I talked about fundamental things to the industry, because I really believe it’s about investment outcomes.”

“Unlike SRI, on the ESG front, we can analyze factors objectively,” says Karp. “Whether or not this touches my values, does it touch a company’s revenues and costs and risk? It’s beyond being ideological now. It’s about investment.”

Karp was invited to join the Sustainability Accounting Standards Board (SASB), an opportunity to create infrastructure in defining ESG criteria that matters to any given industry or company and offering standards for what to disclose based on material economic and profit outcomes.

“More and more people now understand ESG as an analytical discipline, so that’s great progress,” says Karp. She notes that myth-busting still is an active part of her work – for example busting the myth that ESG factors reduce returns when the research shows not only that this is incorrect, but that integrating ESG factors can potentially increase returns over the long term.

Karp points out the risk of ESG analysis becoming more popular is that it is done flippantly, rather than at a high quality level with skilled managers. She feels ESG practices will evolve with standard disclosure, and technology will become more skilled in discerning the signal from the noise in the data when it comes to informing investment impact and outcomes.

“ESG analysis is a discipline within finance that is the future of finance,” says Karp. “One day, all the different phrases – SRI and impact and values-based and double bottom line, we won’t use them. It’s just investing.”

Being A Leader, Not A Manager

“I would rather be a leader than manager. To be a good leader, you really do have to have a vision, a mission. I want people to feel inspired to get on board with what we’re doing and feel purpose and connection,” says Karp. “Management is structural and systems and measures and accountability are critical. But I don’t love management as much as I love leadership.”

As a lover of learning, Karp also feels she learns most when also teaching. With her wife being a clinical psychologist, she jokes she is clearly not afraid to be analyzed.

“Every leader has flaws. I think I am mostly able to hear about the things that I can do better. I want to evolve, teach and coach,” says Karp. “If I’m not listening or open to input as to how I can be better, that’s not facilitating what I want to do.”

“We have financial capital, human capital and natural capital, which is priceless. The intersectionality of these three forms of capital has to be valued,” she says, when she speaks to her leadership vision. “All need to be respected and they need to become regenerative as opposed to being destroyed or shifted around.”

“We know the value of financial capital – many trillions of dollars,” says Karp. “Could someone tell me the value of the last drop of water? That’s worth more than all the financial capital in existence. That’s how I think of things.”

Being The First Out Lesbian on The Trading Floor

“As a woman, to succeed, you can’t just be good. You have to be great,” says Karp. “I was experienced differently than many of the guys around me. So if I am assertive and articulate, I might have been perceived as pushy or aggressive. It’s hard work to gain respect and credibility while balancing not wanting to be seen as aggressive.”

Karp notes that as a woman, and being potentially more risk-averse, she has found herself and other women to often be more supported in their arguments: “In a conference room full of men, I may not be the first to speak,” she says, “but when I do, I have something to say that affects the thinking of the people in the room.”

“When it comes to being gay, that’s more challenging. While my clients or colleagues are processing ‘she’s gay’, are they also hearing what I’m saying? This is the case with any difference,” says Karp. “Whereas we now know difference has to be embraced, because it’s awesome.”

For the initial years of her career, Karp had been married to a man and was mostly closeted. Even after telling a close colleague, it took her years to come out, and she even recalls jumping out of her first Pride Parade in New York for the couple blocks around where it passed by her office building and jumping back in afterwards.

But after making director, and meeting her future wife, she came out 24 years ago. She did not experience the backlash she feared, and she says even if she had, she would not have cared.

“Even if it did affect my career in some way, I don’t care. I’ll never know. I don’t care, because I feel like being out has made me more productive, more creative, more content than I could have imagined back then,” says Karp. “But it was hard — I was the first out lesbian on a Wall Street trading floor.”

Karp found her firm to be receptive and open to learning, and she made a point of being purposely out and transparent to make it easier for those to come. She introduced a lounge for breastfeeding when she had her babies. Repeatedly, she went to HR at UBS with the questions that had never been asked: about covering costs related to becoming pregnant, about taking leave of absence when her wife carried the baby, about applying the financial assistance with the adoption process for her own children.

“Each time, they came back with a yes,” she says. “There are a lot of benefits we have now that are relatively standard at big investment banks, we didn’t have back then.”

Karp and Sari Kessler have had three marriages. Their first “illegal” wedding was 22 years ago in The BoatHouse in Central Park with their rabbi, friends and family. The second was on the first day that City Hall in Manhattan was giving out marriage licenses for same sex couples, also with her rabbi and this time, with their three daughters present (who are now 19, 16 and 13 years old). The third time was when federal marriage equality rights were granted.

Doing What She Is Meant For

“I know that I’m doing what I ought to be doing, and I know that I’m doing it in an important and honorable way,” says Karp.

She loves nature and water and says margaritas by the ocean with her family would be her happy place. She loves hiking, movies, playing cards and watching her daughters grow up, if far too quickly.

By: Aimee Hansen

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Caroline Samponaro: Head of Transit & Micromobility Policy, Lyft

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Caroline Sampanaro“One thing I learned through my community organizing training with Midwest Academy is this idea of leadership: that giving power away is how you grow a powerful movement,” says Caroline Samponaro. “I focus on imparting that message to those I manage: how are we giving away power to build a strength of team and community that can be that much more successful?”

Samponaro speaks to how social issues led her to transport and the journey to feeling confident in her voice.

Social Issues Led Her to Transit

An epic bike ride through Japan is what first set Samponaro, an anthropology major at Colombia University at the time, on the unexpected trajectory of working in transportation.

While writing a thesis on the topic of bike activism, she then began to ride around New York City. She discovered an intriguing intersection between social issues and transport. While working as a paralegal, she started to participate in monthly Critical Mass bike rides on Fridays, an action to create safety in numbers for cyclists by reclaiming the streets.

After challenging an arrest while on a bicycle, she co-founded a group, with other law students and lawyers, called The FreeWheels Bicycle Defense Fund, that raised funds and provided legal support to help cyclists challenge their charges.

“I didn’t come into transportation from a planning or policy perspective initially,” says Samponaro. “I was intrigued about the way that it was an intersection point into cities and government and social issues.”

Though she gained entry into law school, she instead began in a working in transportation in a non-for-profit and never looked back. After twelve years at Transportation Alternatives across various advocacy roles, feeling her impact was limited in scale, she decided to move to the private sector with Lyft as the company expanded its scope to include micromobility.

Affecting Inclusion through Transport

Transportation is a pervasive industry because it touches most people on a daily basis, and Samponaro’s work is disrupting the norms we take for granted that weren’t always norms.

“In the U.S., we’ve spent more than a century building the private automobile into everyday life,” notes Samponaro. “There are New York Times articles from the introduction of the automobile era which reflect the public’s uproar over the invasion of these automobiles onto the streets, which traditionally had been used as gathering places, stickball locations, parks, food markets and all the things.”

“We also heavily subsidize single-occupancy vehicle trips to mask the massive toll this form of transportation takes on society – free parking, cheap gas, roads designed entirely for vehicular traffic. It’s not surprising that roughly 77% of Americans drive alone in their car to work. As we face big challenges like climate change, housing, and equitable access to transportation options, removing the single occupancy vehicle from day to day life is part of getting at the root of the problem,” she says. “Lyft as a company is challenging the premise of the single occupancy vehicle through rideshare, our large-scale bikeshare programs and the ways that we provide our customers with trip planning to integrate transit into a daily commute.”

Samponaro’s line of work in micromobility is focused on creating a network of shared bicycles and scooters that functions like a public transportation system. Though bike activism originally drew her into urban biking, she feels her work is helping to remove the identity politics from riding a bike, while overcoming some of the disadvantages of not owning a car.

“At the end of the day, if we’re trying to transform the way people get around, and make it more equitable and safe, it’s important that when people choose to get on a bike to go to work, they’re not making an identity decision,” she notes. “They’re making a practical one, with a tool that is available, easy and affordable.”

Bringing A More Diverse Human Element to Transit

“In the context of biking and micromobility, often the market is orientating itself towards the perspective of a young white male,” Samponaro observes. “I’ve tried to find opportunities, whether through my own perspective or bringing in the perspective of other women, to make sure we’re inserting a broader view into how we plan our programs and welcome people to our systems.”

For example, street designs generally make the thought of shifting to a bicycle both scary and implausible: “You have to be daring, and you shouldn’t have to be thinking about whether you’re risking your life in your transportation choice. That’s not logical, so I think that impacting the systems around people’s choices become the ways you ensure equity and access.”

“It’s important that there are engineers building models and algorithms to make non-driving easier and more attainable,” notes Samponaro. “I’m most excited about my work when I’m bringing the human dimension to that essential product development. Given how much this area impacts the lives of people, having a people-centric perspective on the work of transportation has been an asset that I can bring and that I find great satisfaction in.”

A Culture of Belonging

“Growing up, I just passed as someone that people assumed was straight. So I struggled mostly in the context of work with a feeling of being closeted, unless I chose not to be,” says Samponaro. “Always coming out over and over again has its own challenges.”

Working in a highly male-dominated industry, she has often been the only woman or one of few women at the table. As a married lesbian mother of 4.5 year old twins, the years have brought internal and contextual changes that have helped her feel confident in embodying her own voice.

“Getting to a place of success and building my career trajectory involved feeling bad about myself at times and being slightly insecure that it wasn’t going to go my way, whether it was the raise or the promotion,” she notes. “If I spoke too loudly in the meeting, was I going to be called out for being rude, as opposed to be appreciated for being assertive? As I became more senior, the biggest feedback I received was that I was not being considerate enough in my tone, the kind of feedback that I feel men don’t receive. So the context of being queer just layered on top of those feelings of insecurity and asking if I belonged.”

Samponaro notes that achieving successes is different than having an inherent feeling of ease and belonging: “The overwhelming sense I used to have was as hard as I was trying and as good as I was doing,” she recalls, “I wasn’t going to get asked to that drink or get added to that bike ride or get included.”

Samponaro accredits much of the belonging and encouragement she now feels to being in an environment where there is a dedicated emphasis on building an equitable company culture.

“I have personally grown to a place where I could feel belonging, but then Lyft is just a wonderful place to work in terms of the emphasis it places on creating affinity groups, recognizing people’s differences, celebrating them and creating opportunities for that to be happening all the time,” she observes. “There’s so much structure built around ensuring that the company is doing equitability, right. The intentionality is key.“

Now that she feels more confident in her voice, Samponaro seeks to become the ally that she realizes she may not have dared to be: “ln my attempts to make sure I kept my job and kept growing in the way I wanted to, did I do enough speaking out on behalf of others around me? Did I do enough ally work? I think the answer, probably up until recently, is ‘no.’”

Samponaro is recognized by those who mentor her for her focus and determination to create change through the work she does. She has learned to embrace her sensitivity and capacity for empathy, though at times challenging, as an asset which has enabled her to truly impact the communities she serves.

By Aimee Hansen

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Natalie Tucker: Head of Strategy & Operations, Radioligand Therapy

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Natalie Tucker “As a professional golfer, you either hire someone to run the business side of your career, or you run it on your own. I ran my own business, raised nearly a million dollars in capital, hired my whole team and traveled around the world,” says Natalie Tucker. “It was a great experience that taught me a lot about business.”

Tucker shares some unique insights from the golf course to apply in the workplace, why you should focus on influencing the influencers and the price she once paid for feeling unable to bring her whole self to work.

From the Golf Course to Health Care

Tucker was a professional golfer for ten years before she retired her golf clubs at the competitive level and moved into healthcare.

Though she realizes being a professional athlete, especially as a woman, is an inspiration to others to embrace your gifts and follow your dreams, she also felt compelled to find avenues to more directly impact the lives of others. Having been surrounded by the business of health as a golfer, she was magnetized to go into healthcare while leveraging the science-inclined side of herself.

“Being a professional athlete was fun and entertaining, but for me, it felt like something was missing. In my work now, I feel I am helping people and bringing value to them,” says Tucker. “The patients benefit from our work, and you really feel like you’re making a difference.”

After a period of working in a company that focused on artificial intelligence for skin cancer detection, she attained her MBA from Yale, before moving into consulting for pharmaceutical companies. Eventually she joined Novartis – where she heads strategy and operations for a business unit focusing on radiopharmaceuticals for the treatment of patients with various cancers.

Lessons For Navigating the Course of Business

In a unique training ground where her personal career depended not only upon her athletic ability but also on her business prowess, Tucker acquired many valuable lessons as an athlete that she continues to draw from, over 10 years after leaving the golf course.

Maintaining Calm Under Pressure

Tucker gives credit to her professional golf career for helping her learn to manage pressure and anxiety. Her ability to retain her LPGA Tour Card, and therefore her job for the following year, depended on her performance in a single four-day tournament. When the stakes are that high, with six-figure sponsors on the line, you have to stay in your center and focus.

“If you play poorly over four days, you lose everything. You lose your income, you have nothing,” she recalls. “So there’s a lot of pressure. I had to learn ways of self-calming: how do I quiet my mind, take two minutes and just relax, and empty everything out? I did that on the golf course to get through these really hard moments.”

“This is a hundred percent applicable to business. Before I go into an interview, before I give a presentation, before I talk with the CEO of the company – I take two minutes just to calm myself. All of the methods that help maintain an even keel transfer from golf to business.”

Visualizing Your End Goal and Pathway To Success

“In playing professional golf, you spend a lot of time visualizing or mentally planning what you want to accomplish,” she notes. “The best way to be successful in business is also to think about what you’re trying to accomplish, and ask yourself ‘What does the end goal look like?’ ”

Once you know where you want to go, it’s about setting the plan for how to arrive to that outcome.

“Unless you have a vision of where you want to go and a plan of how you’re going to get there, you’re not going to make it, this is true in golf or business,” observes Tucker. “When you play a tournament, you plan every single shot in advance and visualize yourself accomplishing it – For example, for each hole, you look at where the pin is, and you think of the best angle to approach it. This angle informs every shot ahead of it. It’s starting with the end in mind to inform your first move.

In business, not only do you need to identify ‘what good looks like’ and sketch a project plan for how you’re going to get there”, says Tucker, “but you also need to ask yourself who you need to bring in.”

Bringing In Your Support Team

“Running my own business as a professional golfer taught me how to work with people, and not just for the purpose of ‘transacting’. I learned how to understand what others’ needs are, and the importance of that knowledge to build a strong relationship,” says Tucker.

It’s a misconception that being a golfer is not also about being part of a team, as her team was essential to overall success.

“When I came into business, I thought I could be successful if I worked hard enough, but that’s not necessarily true. You have to bring others along with you for the ride,” she notes. “Similar to golf, the more you can bring the right team on board, the more successful you will be.”

Tucker feels that dialogue is what gives rise to the best solutions, as the combined insight from others is what often catalyzes the best path, not just your own thinking.

Influencing the Influencers

Previously very focused on personal performance, getting out of her comfort zone and moving towards greater focus on interconnectivity has ultimately been highly fulfilling and encouraged versatility.

“Taking the time and really getting to know people has been the most rewarding part of my career. I’m really happy that I’ve adjusted my style of work to look beyond the work itself, and broaden my perspective to focus on people.”

One of the biggest adjustments that Tucker felt coming into business, as a performance-focused introvert, was the necessary need to navigate the more strategic connections that are so often a large component of being effective in the business world. In golf, the bottom line of Tucker’s success was her performance down to the numbers. If she performed well, the right people would come to her.

“The hardest part about the corporate world is there’s no black and white success criteria. There’s nothing that says if you do well on this project, you will be promoted,” says Tucker. “It’s performance over time and there’s a whole communication network that took me a long time to understand, and adjust to.”

As she had to do with raising money in golf, Tucker has learned to engage beyond the people in her team, and not necessarily by going three levels up for visibility either. Her strategy has been to develop real connections with influencers to the decision-makers.

“What I see too often is people only building relationships with those people who are like them and in their comfort zone, often at the same level or nearby in the office,” she notes. “But people would really benefit by looking at an organization and asking: who are the key decision-makers, and who are the influencers to those key decision makers?”

“People often want to go directly to the key decision maker and say ‘get to know me’, but if you get to know the influencers of the key decision makers, you become an influencer in the organization as well,” she has realized. “When joining an organization, this is a good first step for those who are more introverted and looking to quickly create positive impact on the business because you’re able to have honest dialogues on key matters. It’s about reading the organization, and learning about its people – not their title, but who they are, and their communication networks. Once you understand the communication network of an organization, you can navigate it well.”

The Price of Not Bringing Her Whole Self To Work

As a professional golfer twenty years ago, Tucker’s brand was critical to her ability to raise funds and support her athletic career – and she went through a very tough lesson as a gay woman who did not feel she could risk being her whole self.

At one point, one of her major sponsors told her that he had heard rumors she was gay. If true, he made it explicit that this would be a dealbreaker for continued sponsorship.

“Now this was 20 years ago, and times were different, but I hid who I was. I changed my image, tried to behave and walk differently, and it destroyed my career,” Tucker states. “I was trying to be someone I wasn’t, and I wasn’t authentic to myself or to the world around me. If I could do it over again, I would have behaved differently, even though it would have dissolved my access to income at the time. Trying to hide who I was made it impossible to be great. I couldn’t be my best without being my full self.”

After leaving golf where success was so dependent on her image, Tucker found the protections of the corporate world to be a huge relief.

“There was a transition period, where I learned how to be who I was, without feeling that I was going to be retaliated against,” she notes. “Today, everybody knows my wife, Marion. I finally feel like I have the ability to be open, and to be who I am. But it was a learning experience for me, and it definitely wasn’t easy along the way.”

In addition to loving cooking, Tucker loves to be outside enjoying nature whenever she can, and still loves to compete. These days, squash, tennis with her wife (who she jokes is ‘not that bad’ on the court against her) and basketball, to stay in shape, are her sports of choice.

By Aimee Hansen

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Anna Salek: Partner, Private Client Team Leader, Shearman & Sterling LLC

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Anna Salek“Junior level women lawyers sometimes ask me for career advice, and I find the reoccurring theme is that they do not have a good understanding of their professional value,” says Anna Salek. “Very often, women grossly underestimate their value.”

Salek talks about her genuine appreciation for cutting-edge legal work, the growth in a lateral move, the two-way street of value and daring to do what scares you.

The Gratification of Top-Tier Work

“I get immense satisfaction from solving complex problems,” says Salek, who enjoys tackling legal issues that perhaps no other firm has been able to solve sufficiently or that have never before even been considered.

As the private client team leader at Shearman & Sterling with over 20 years of direct experience, Salek works with high-net-worth individuals and families to meet their wide range of legal needs and specializes the areas of trust and estates, tax planning and not-for-profit law.

“I am lucky to work at a top-tier firm like Shearman where the clients are interesting and the legal work is challenging,” she says. “I love the cutting-edge work where often there’s no precedent and the client is relying on my judgment and experience.”

Salek joined Shearman in early 2019 to lead their private client team and was drawn there by the firm’s rich history, impressive client base and dynamic women.

Be Willing to Move To Expand

“I think women, more than men, are more prone to say, ‘they’ve been so good to me here’ and view moving on to another firm as being disloyal or ungrateful. Well, that’s fine that they’ve been good to you – they should be good to you,” says Salek. “But you should also be good to yourself and not be shy about exploring other opportunities.”

While the practice of trusts and estates is generally gender diverse, it is more often men who head up the practice, so replacing C. Jones Perry at Shearman when he retired as team leader was a strong leap ahead for women in leadership in law.

“I was very dedicated and happy at another top-tier-firm where I grew up as a lawyer, and I stayed there for a long time. But moving to another firm made me a better lawyer as it allowed me to grow in different directions than I otherwise would have,” says Salek. “Making a lateral move can help you grow professionally, but equally as important, you are bringing value to your new firm by contributing your own unique skills, experience and perspective.”

“I’m not suggesting women should job hop or even leave their job, but I do think everyone should consider it from time to time – even if only to confirm how good you have it. Men change firms more frequently than women, and it’s not a bad thing. With each move you’re not only likely to increase your compensation, but it’s also a huge personal and professional growth opportunity.”

Know Your Self-Worth

On a similar thread, the guidance that Salek consistently emphasizes to junior level women lawyers is to value themselves as professionals.

“You are valuable to your firm. It’s not just a one-way street. I find that women sometimes almost can’t hear that,” iterates Salek. “They’re reluctant to ask for anything—equity, more compensation. a flexible work schedule, for example – or give themselves credit. Reminding women of their professional contributions to their firm is what I end up doing in almost every single one of those conversations.”

The Relationship Side of Private Client Work

On top of being challenged by the academic intricacies of her practice area, Salek loves the client interaction and deep relationships involved in her area of law. She enjoys working with individuals and families, many of whom have been long-term generational clients of the firm.

“The clients I work with tend to be extremely interesting people,” says Salek, for whom “field trips” to clients’ homes and offices are as much a part of her job as being behind her desk.

“When people invite you into the world of their personal finances, they inevitably invite you into their family and personal lives,” says Salek who feels that women especially thrive in cultivating relationships and trust.

“Not only do you have to be a proficient lawyer, you need to be personable and trustworthy. There’s just an element of being trusted that’s not something you can learn and that quality has helped me a lot, second certainly to really knowing what I’m doing,” she says. “I have clients who are women who have said they picked me because they prefer to work with a woman, and I have had male clients who say the same thing.”

Do What Scares You

“My advice to junior lawyers would be: don’t shy away from things that intimidate you. In fact, seek them out. Do something that scares you every day,” Salek says. “I’m not talking about skydiving. I’m talking about challenging yourself. Don’t like public speaking? Do a webinar, go sit on a panel. Don’t think you know enough about something? Help a client with that particular issue or publish an article about it. Shy? Invite someone you would like to get to know or learn from for lunch or coffee.”

Salek credits her own integration of this advice for having made her into a more confident lawyer today.

”I feel women especially don’t like to be outside of their comfort zone, but that’s the only place where you can grow,” she says. “It’s really important to push your own boundaries.”

Practicing Work-Life Integration

A rewarding aspect of her work has been the pro bono cases where Salek has been able to champion people and organizations in critical financial wins, where she sometimes gets as involved in interpersonal dynamics as with her private clients.

Salek finds that for her, work enters home life and home life enters work, so she embraces the work-life integration approach of keeping both in even keel, rather than “the two-iPhone approach” of work-life balance, which she feels is a false separation of parts of life that live inside of the same universe.

She is married with two teenagers, a daughter of 16 and a son of 14, and notes one silver lining of the pandemic is that people who were technology-resistant have been forced to embrace technology, opening up more remote working possibilities.

Salek is an avid, hands-in-the-dirt gardener. Her favorite season is spring, and she finds that “observing the earth awakening is so good for the soul.”

By Aimee Hansen

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Grace Lee: Treasurer & Head of Financial Planning and Analytics, S&P Global

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Grace Lee“I’m completely open to, and actually encourage, my team telling me when I’m wrong. I invite them to convince me that I’m wrong. I love that!” says Grace Lee. “I want us to have the best ideas, and that’s only possible when we are all contributing, debating and challenging each other.”

Lee speaks to ramping up the opportunity for responsibility, why motivating others makes the real difference in impact and why the ability to have a constructive relationship with healthy debates means you must be willing to challenge and be challenged.

Following The Call To Responsibility and Impact

“You do things for three years and then you look for a new challenge,” laughs Lee, recalling what the Head of HR at a previous firm said to her. She is motivated by massive strategic challenges with fast growth curves—and the desire to manage more responsibility while seeing the direct impact of her work.

Having planned to become a lawyer because of her love for formulating a thesis, supporting an argument and conducting a robust debate, Lee deferred law school to follow the investment banking hype out of Columbia University, and took an analyst position in Asia.

While in Asia, she discovered that she was far more drawn to the financial analytics and investor storytelling components of investment banking versus the work she partnered on with international corporate lawyers when on deals.

“The thing that I appreciated about certain aspects of investment banking is you can see the direct impact of your work. When working on an IPO of a company, if the competitive analysis and valuation work you’ve done is compelling, you should see that play out in the markets. Similarly with M&A, if investors deem that the merger makes strategic sense and the valuation is reasonable, you see that reflected in the price performance of those companies,” says Lee. “For me, seeing direct impact is so important.”

After three years in Asia, she moved back to the U.S. headquarters of the same investment bank. Subsequently, she went for a rewarding full-time Harvard MBA, which allowed her to focus on learning and traveling. She highly recommends a full-time MBA, rather than an EMBA, if you have accrued both the experience and finances to give yourself the opportunity.

After Harvard, Lee moved to the equity research group within the same investment bank. The firm had just acquired an asset management firm and she was able to join its financial institutions research team, where she was able to build upon her experiences in investment banking but now, formulate her own theses on which companies made most sense to buy vs. sell. After another few years, she thought “instead of analyzing these companies and the strategic direction that they go, I’d love to participate in the strategy making of a company and see how that transpires.”

She took a big leap to Voya Financial, helping to lead the IPO of the U.S. business for what was formerly ING, a top global financial powerhouse before the crisis.

“In my early 30’s, that was a really transformational experience. We were basically in a start-up environment, but for a massive company with leading businesses,” says Lee. “Before IPO-ing the company, we had to create the story of how the sum of the businesses made strategic sense together, and were far greater than the individual parts.”

When that role eventually evolved to maintenance, Lee moved onto a couple Executive Chief of Staff roles at other firms, before landing at S&P Global, which she came to be familiar with as her mentor from a prior firm had recently joined the company.

Merging Strategic and Analytical Outlook

“Coming from an investment banking and equity research background, we were trained to formulate both the high-level strategic picture, as well as be comfortable with the underlying analytics that support the strategy. For example, the investment case wouldn’t hold for a certain stock if the secular trends for the industry were all deteriorating. It’s valuable to be able to both see the big strategic picture and back that up with analytical horsepower,” says Lee.

Lee feels the ability to influence people is important and something she has honed, as is staying abreast of the macro-environment.

“Our job isn’t static, so to constantly keep educated on how the economy, markets and world is evolving is important,” observes Lee.

Inspiring Greatness In Others

Through both executive coaching and mentorship, Lee has realized that while striving for personal achievement has delivered her this far, the true opportunity for incremental growth and impact now lies in inspiring greatness from others.

One of her mentors shared that a mentor once advised that if you’re operating at 100% as a high achiever, it takes a lot of work to ramp yourself up to 110%. But if a whole team is operating at 70% of their performance potential and you are able to elevate the team to 80%, the incremental impact of that shift is much, much greater.

Lee has embraced this philosophy, particularly as in recent roles, her direct reports and management responsibilities have increased. While she still rolls up her sleeves and does her own modeling or formats her own PowerPoint presentations from time to time, she realized that her impact is no longer measured solely on her performance, but on the camaraderie and achievements of her broader team. “The joy I used to get seeing the price performance of a successful IPO I worked on, I now get watching my employees grow and succeed.  Some of the greatest compliments I have received recently were from my staff who have told me about the profound impact I have had on their professional development.”

More deeply embracing empathy and the softer skills is part of her current leadership approach, qualities which she admits wer not central to her personal achievement mindset.

“Earlier in my career, I focused on quick and seamless execution,” she reflects. “I didn’t much appreciate the softer skills, but now that I oversee a range of initiatives, it is impossible to be that strong individual contributor across all of these. I am also recognizing that what I need to do is empathize and elevate those I work and partner with, as collectively we can all achieve more than any single contributor,” says Lee.

She also notes that leaders she most admires, including executive management at her current company, demonstrate these skills and she feels inspired by them to always do her best.

Setting the Tone And Encouraging Women’s Voices

As a Korean-American woman, Lee is often a unique face as finance in corporate America tends to be white male-dominated. But growing up with a younger brother, all male cousins and having two sons, she isn’t necessarily out of her element.

“At my level you don’t see that many females, but that has not been a deterrent for me. My personality is a bit more direct, and I think that resonates more with my male colleagues,” says Lee. “That being said, the people I’m closest to and develop the closest relationships with are female. The higher you go, there’s fewer women but we really support each other.”

Naturally assertive herself, Lee will often encourage or even nudge her female reports to speak up. “In the reviews I give them, I tell them ‘I know you share good emails and insights with me, but I think everyone would benefit from you sharing those ideas.’”

In the virtual meeting room, she will take the initiative to volunteer other women to speak, mentioning that she knows her female coworker (by name) has ideas to share on this topic. She also IMs with managers and peers when topics come up, either to bounce off possible points or let a colleague know her input would be valued on this topic.

Being Willing to Challenge and Be Challenged

Lee emphasizes the value of being willing to challenge, as well as being willing to be challenged as a leader. “I have strong opinions, but I am the very first person—if you tell me why I’m wrong and give me data points— to say, ‘I’m wrong. Let’s shift.’”

Equally, she is unafraid to challenge her current boss, when she has a different perspective on how to approach an issue. “He’s a very logical man and he doesn’t want ‘yes people, because they add less value than people who will think strategically and then push back. I appreciate this about him and have tried to emulate this in my own management style.”

Lee thinks one of the best and important decisions she’s made is choosing a husband who is also an advisor and coach to her. She also appreciates that he always challenges her, and keeps it real and her grounded. She enjoys spending quality time with him, her six and nine year old sons and also watching Korean dramas.

By Aimee Hansen

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Anna Thomas: Vice President, Private Banking Technology at Brown Brothers Harriman

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Anna Thomas“It’s all about people. Projects, systems, everything else goes away. You might even forget what you were executing back then,” says Anna Thomas, “but people connections can remain even after 25 years, and that is very fulfilling.”

Thomas speaks to managing work and family, the value of executional and relational strengths and how bias often feels like what goes unsaid.

Managing Career And Family

As a lover of mathematics entering into computer science, Thomas worked with a Professor to research computer simulations of ancient mathematical algorithms based on Indian Vedic scriptures when she worked in MIT India.

After coming to the states to attain her Masters in computer science and a few years of work in tech in the telecommunications industry, she moved to apply her skills within the financial services world. But a week into her job at J.P. Morgan, initially as a consultant, she discovered she was pregnant with her second son. The manager at that time was very supportive and continued to give her larger opportunities.

After a C-section, she planned to take a three-month maternity leave, but the firm was going through an intense merger, and they asked if she could return after six weeks. So even in 2003, Thomas found herself remote working on a desktop computer that had been sent to her home, with the close support of her mother with her new baby.

After moving up to VP in Barclays and changes of firm, Thomas took on a Global VP role at Experian in which she managed 200 technical professionals across 13 worldwide locations. She traveled for work, spending only one week each month at the home office in New York. Her husband agreed to take a job close to home to make it all work.

“I had a very supportive husband and very independent kids too,” she says. “When I think about it, I’m don’t even remember how we did it all. My sons were able to do everything other kids did (ice hockey, karate, baseball, soccer) and mom still had a demanding job.”

Preserving Weekends For the Family

Thomas said her secret was not only designating the weekends solely for family time and home, but also making sure she was “home every day” in another way.

“I still wanted them to have home cooked Indian meals and the heritage,” she recalls. “So I would block off Sunday and bulk cook different dinner dishes for the whole week to eat while I was away.”

“Also, I made personal days off and when I was here, I was committed, not on my Blackberry,” she recalls—whether volunteering to read at her son’s childcare or going on a field trip as a volunteer and getting to know her son’s friends and having them over on the weekend.

Skills of Success

Much like her Sunday approach or how she plans out family vacations, Thomas puts a lot of her business success and leadership capacity down to her strategic and executional strength.

“My passion is to plan, lead and execute,” she says. “You stay disciplined and that’s how you can actually get through whatever you need to do.

Simplification has been another asset to her leadership style.

“Being a woman, you come with a different perspective and empathy, a diverse way of looking at decisions,” says Thomas. “You sit around the table and sometimes there are very complex ways of thinking. It’s often easy for me to make it practical and lay out simple, practical solutions.

“Everything starts with the end in mind—everything has to be for the business. I am very client-centric. If I do something, is this going to be valuable for the client? And that’s how I start thinking about anything, any solution,” she says. “How do I get there? What are the issues in between? Everything else becomes the means to get there. How do I go in steps?”

When it comes to failing, Thomas recommends to be agile with failure too.

“I want to see what happens, and if I am going to fail, I want to fail fast, learn from my mistakes and get up and run again,” she says. “Everyone is going to fail at some point. Everyone is going to have their bad projects. Try to just do it in small cycles, learn fast, and then apply your learning and keep moving.”

No Matter the Work, Leadership is About People

Thomas emphasizes that even in a technical or product development role, what you are really working with is people. She feels parenting transfers to help, too.

At the end of the day, any technology, finance, or other field that you’re talking about, is ultimately about the people who do the work,” she says. “To understand people—have empathy with different perspectives, different personalities, and awareness of context—is critical to your success.”

Due to her background, Thomas offers a keen sensitivity to, and ability to navigate, cultural differences.

“I have the benefit of growing up in a different country and being exposed to different cultures, so that helps me to understand and work with cross-cultural teams,” says Thomas. “For example, in Asian culture, unless you actually reach out and ask, someone will often think it’s disrespectful to provide their view of things. I grew up in that culture, so I know and I can actually coax and ask someone to speak up. I can come from that angle.”

For her, the most nourishing part of work is the “people agenda” and mentoring.

“Something I’ve learned is that a mentor-mentee relationship is always a give-and-take. You are teaching and learning from everyone at the same time,” she says. “There’s no age or experiences that are little. There is a perspective of a person. I have the breadth because I managed a number of things, but down the road, you may have the depth of something I can rely on.”

Bias Can Be The Untold Factor

Thomas has often been the only woman in her technology-based team. One of the things she has experienced as an Indian woman in technology is that ethnic and gender bias is not always easy to point at, but often feels like the elusive thing going unstated.

“When you’re put up against a promotion, you’re in the top two, you have nine out of ten credentials and someone else only has seven out of ten and they get it, you wonder. I rarely have that explained, and I’ve had that experience more than once,” she says. “It’s an untold thing. If my performance exceeds all expectations every time, why not? It’s often unclear what the breaking criteria is.“

She has at times received vague feedback as to skills she would need for a role, as other women have spoke to. In a past firm, when a boss she’d worked with across two firms appointed her to a CTO role because of her change-agent capacity, she experienced a senior male peer visiting her office to attempt to intimidate her away from the role.

“I reported him and I kicked ass taking on that role,” she says. Not surprisingly, she has found that attempts at suppression only comes with visibility and achievements.

In any organization, Thomas looks for opportunities to constantly stay current and update her self and her technology proficiency. Growth is a critical objective for her and she has learned to move on from situations where that is thwarted.

Enjoying Home

Thomas is currently enjoying home life with her husband and her 15 year old son. She likes doing the small mundane things she didn’t always have time for all those traveling years, whether errands to the store or Netflix binges. She still keeps her Sunday meal preparation routine, and her 19 year old son requests his favorite Indian dishes from childhood when he visits from college.

By Aimee Hansen

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Nneka Orji: Chief Operating Officer, Morrinson Wealth Management, UK

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“So many outcomes are often the result of sometimes small decisions that aren’t constructively challenged with another perspective,” says Nneka Orji, who is willing to be that voice in the room.

Nneka speaks to speaking up when it’s uncomfortable, why mentoring is a key part of people management, and the value of knowing who you are.

From Consulting to COO

After acquiring a Masters of Engineering degree from Oxford, Nneka went into consulting in 2010, first with Accenture and then with Deloitte UK.

Born in India and having grown up across Nigeria, France, Trinidad and the UK, Nneka loved the variety of working with different people and cultures to address diverse problems at a challenging pace.

She earned frequent promotions across her ten year stint in management consulting. As she kept learning, the lifestyle of business travel suited her.

During her time at Deloitte UK, she did a secondment as Chief of Staff for the Chairman’s office. Considering him her first sponsor—a leader who cared, pushed and supported— Nneka gained insight into the mechanics of being in an influential position, running a large organization and interacting with leaders.

She joined Morrinson Wealth Management as Chief Operating Officer in 2019. Nneka highlights that it’s a misconception that she works only with people with great wealth. Often she’s working with clients who are trying to make the earnings they have work best for them.

“They’re trying to plan ahead and look at: How can I make the most of what I’m earning? How do I build a life that’s in line with what I want to deliver for my family, for my loved ones?” she says. “Giving them the financial education, awareness and savviness to manage their own finances and to live the lives they want is really fulfilling.”

Daring the Discomfort of Using Her Voice

While accustomed from school and engineering to being in male-dominated environments and often the only black person in the room, let alone black female, Nneka says that the playing field of financial services has still compelled her to thicken her skin, become more assertive and use her voice.

Several times, she has braved speaking up in a tough moment—both in support of fairness for others and for herself.

Nneka recalls one compelling example from her consulting days when she was in a meeting focused on the consideration of candidates for promotion. When she heard more senior colleagues vaguely describe why a certain female manager was not ready for promotion—such as from a “gut feel” or because of “cultural fit”—she challenged her seniors to be specific, direct and transparent.

“I said, ‘Why is it gut feel? Why do you think she’s not ready? Have you actually given her feedback?’” says Nneka, recalling they hadn’t. “I said, ‘It’s not fair on that individual to give these vague responses. We need to be really clear. She wants to progress. If there’s concern, it’s only right that we tell her, rather than effectively leading her on.”

“I was definitely challenging beyond the point they were comfortable, and I walked out of the room knowing I had pushed,” she recalls. “It’s not that I had anything to gain personally, but I felt that it’s only fair to everyone to have someone to speak for them, on their behalf. If I was in her situation, who would stand up for me?”

While she could have deferred to her senior colleagues, Nneka chose a clear conscience. Nneka reflects the discomfort was likely because she was touching on affinity bias or another elephant in the room that may have been unconscious, but so often proliferates the status quo.

“These kind of decisions affect people’s careers, successes and progressions, how much they’ll get paid and how much they can save and invest and so on,” states Nneka.

Speaking up for herself, Nneka has stood her ground amidst men twenty years her senior, only to earn their respect from her work. She also once directly expressed disappointment in a senior partner’s response and leadership when after three years of working for him, she approached him to talk an issue with one very difficult female client and his immediate suggestion was she must have done something wrong to invite the conflict.

“I feel it’s important to make sure it’s clear what you will stand or what you are willing to accept, in terms of basic respect,” says Nneka.

Supporting Others To See Their Potential

“I haven’t had formal mentors to be very honest,” says Nneka, though she has leaders to bounce perspectives off of. “But you can put together the strong points that you see in different leaders and create almost your own fictional mentor in that way.”

She’s inspired to emulate the leaders whom she looked forward to working with—who pushed her in the best way and with whom she came to learn more about herself and her abilities.

“I do see mentoring as a core part of managing, because you can manage as a task manager and the tasks will get done,” Nneka notes. “But what I’m trying to do is to be an inspiring leader. I try to instil a sense of raising aspirations; maybe a team member started their career thinking this was your limit, but actually they have so much more potential, if they want to do more.”

Nneka values communication and saying or hearing it like it is, so nobody suffers in silence while their needs go unknown.

When Nneka took on managing others, she didn’t realize how rewarding it would be. “When a team member comes and says I’ve developed so much over the past year because of your influence, it gives me a strong sense of fulfillment.

Nneka has been a formal mentor for over a decade, with the Social Mobility Foundation, working with graduate mentees with a socially or economically challenged background, and also with the Cherie Blair Foundation For Women, working with entrepreneurial women in countries like India or Kenya or Israel.

These experiences have enriched her so much, she also considers them “reverse mentoring”.

“I like to see how different people think and how different people’s life experiences have shaped who they are, and how that informs their thinking,” says Nneka. “There’s something about learning about someone else’s perspective on life, and being open to finding out something that you might not have known. That’s the thing I love the most.”

Knowing Who You Are

Nneka feels her support system, both her family and working with people who have her best interests at heart and gave her a platform, has supported her fast growth.

She recommends being “intentional about choosing who you work with”—seeking out people who accept you for yourself and push you in a good way while having your back.

She feels that early on, her parents helped her to know who she was, down to pointing out the reality that she would often be unique in the room—as a black female in the schools she was in, and in her working life, especially as she moves up in leadership.

“Some people would say you shouldn’t necessarily point out or emphasize the difference,” reflects Nneka, “but I think it was so helpful in terms of me knowing who I was and who I am, and being true to myself. Of course I wasn’t always as confident in this respect and I’ve grown a lot since, but being comfortable in your own skin, in terms of your own history and culture, is critical. As long as you know who you are, you know your motivations, your boundaries and you make decisions in line with these.”

Nneka has worked some long hours, and suspects that subconsciously she has been motivated to overwork as a proactive measure against casual suggestions of gender or ethnic minority initiatives playing into her promotions, a frustrating undermining of accomplishment that black women are more likely to be subjected to.

“Sometimes you don’t have to work as hard as you do to get the outcome that you want,” she has come to realize. “I think that’s probably a lesson I am still learning.”

Nneka loves to travel, workout, dance and listen to both crime podcasts and inspiring podcasts during long walks in the sunshine—such as Oprah Super Soul Sunday, HBR Women At Work, The Wallet, The Tim Ferriss Show.

She’s inspired by “people who find their purpose and commit to positively influencing communities – small or large”.

By Aimee Hansen

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Grace J. Lee: Litigation Partner, Shearman & Sterling LLP

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Grace J Lee“As I was progressing within the BigLaw structure, the most important thing was not defining my success by the way that some tend to view it,” says Grace Lee. “I resisted my initial tendency to buy into the notion that if I didn’t make partner, that was somehow failure, or spoke to my skillset or my value.”

Lee shares on defining your own success, aligning with your personal priorities, and challenging the stereotypes of who you need to be in the role.

From Literature to Law

Lee contemplated a path in comparative literature, but was hesitant to commit to a life in academia. She also had been considering law school and discovered that law fulfilled her interest in causes for justice and allowed her to apply her literature skillsets.

“As a comparative literature major, I did a lot of exercises in explicating texts—you take a passage from a literary work, consider why the author chose the words they did, and where it fits in the broader context of the work,” says Lee. “In legal work, I was interested in interpreting words—words in statutes and court decisions. And making arguments about how certain language should be interpreted, based on word choices and the context, to support a thesis.”

Now in her 15th year at Shearman & Sterling (S&S) in New York and D.C., she is an industry expert—working with financial institutions and corporations on securities and antitrust litigation, commercial litigation, and regulatory investigations.

Defining Her Own Success

“Don’t buy into how other people define success. If you have a view of where you want to be in five or ten years, stay true to that,” says Lee, “as opposed to feeling like you need to be or do something that might be completely divorced from what makes you professionally and personally satisfied.”

While attaining partnership was a meaningful step in her career, it does not define her success, and she points out that many smart, successful people do not opt into or attain partnership.

“I think success is a very personal thing. For me, being able to have the different spaces of my life come together is success,“ she notes. “I’m able to have a career that I find fulfilling and kids who are fairly well adjusted. My kids see that what I do is not at their expense, and that my professional space means something to me.”

Aligning With Your Personal Priorities

For her personally, becoming a parent changed and clarified her priorities in a way that she never anticipated.

“I had a vision of the type of parent I wanted to be, and the type of lawyer I wanted to be,” says Lee. “I also realized that if I couldn’t be the parent that I wanted to be, then I wasn’t going to be happy even if I succeeded as a lawyer, and that became my guiding principle.”

To make this work, Lee did her best to fulfill her visions of both roles. She prioritized coming home to put her children to bed every night, and then working a second shift, often late into the night. “What that meant was that what could have been a work day that ended at 9 or 10 pm if I worked through the evening in the office became a work day that often ended well past midnight, because I took the time to go home, spend a little time with them, and put them to bed.” But for Lee, the personal sense of having given something the best that she could under the circumstances, was what was the most important.

“In order for me to not be resentful of the fact that I have a demanding job but instead grow in it, I had to make sure that I wouldn’t look back 20 years from then and feel that I had sacrificed my values as a parent to be a lawyer. I gave my best to both roles so that, many years from now, I hopefully wouldn’t feel that I had pursued one at the expense of the other and question those choices.”

Knowing her choice is her own, she emphasizes that your own priority is never wrong, whatever it is—it’s about aligning your life with your self-discerned priority.

“The trouble is when you’re trying to do something that doesn’t align with your values just because you feel like you have to do it,” says Lee. “I think that’s where the discord and the struggles really materialize.”

Lee finds it helpful to introduce the two parts of her life to each other. “After a long week, the physical office building was not the place I would have chosen to go to on a weekend. But it was important for my kids to be able to visualize me at work during the day, where I spend more time than I do with them.” So on some weekends, Lee brought her kids into the office where they would walk through the halls, sit at her desk and pretend that they were working. Lee also naturally incorporates her job as a parent in her conversations at work.

“Some people—especially women at least as I have observed—shy away from talking about their kids at work because they think they will be taken as less committed. I want people to understand that I have another demanding job that I absolutely love. It’s important for me to feel that my work is a safe space where I can talk about my kids, and the challenges and the demands of parenthood instead of pretending that I don’t have those issues.”

That openness has also paved the way for real meaningful discussions with mentors who have helped her navigate the intensity of BigLaw while striking the balance she personally seeks.

“So many great partners who have been mentors and friends over the years really helped me as I was trying to figure out my priorities and my definition of success. They didn’t just tell me what to do to get to the next step in BigLaw. They asked me what I wanted in life and in my career and shared their personal stories. Those discussions could get very granular—like, ‘What are your stressors? Let’s identify what they are, and see if it’s solvable.’” Even when the stressor was outside of Lee’s control, being able to identify it helped more than just feeling stressed.

Her mentors have also often become her sponsors, advocating for her and helping her to advance in the organization and with clients.

Growing Through The Process

“Take on as much as you think you can reasonably handle. And then stretch that a little. See how that works. And if that works, stretch it a little more. Do the very best to not turn down work,” says Lee, who focuses on the notion of building her personal value rather than billing hours.

“My brand and my value come down to my experience. The level of experience and breadth of different types of cases you get because you’re working more and stretching a little is huge. That experience becomes a big part of your value as a lawyer.”

For Lee, it’s not a particular case or moment that has been rewarding for her, but the relationships and overall growth that come with the process of working with her teams and clients to solve issues. “It’s the journey from Point A to Point B, from Point B to Point C, and so on, and then seeing the growth from Point A to Point X. It’s not any single moment, but it’s many blocks of moments of where I was and where I am now.”

Being Yourself, Not an Expectation

Though Lee works with many women, the industry and partnership ring are more male-dominated, so she values that her own trajectory helped to set an important precedent.

“It’s natural to look for someone you can identify with in the role you want to be in. I hope that I might be able to be that person for some.”

Just as Lee rejects the notion of adopting anyone else’s idea of success, she also challenges the notion that you have to be anyone else’s version of a lawyer.

Especially as she became more senior, Lee confronted expectations about how a successful lawyer looks and acts—such as the stereotype of litigators being loud and argumentative—but those expectations didn’t always match the ways that Lee speaks or acts.  Lee believes that you don’t have to fundamentally change who you are, or embody certain mannerisms every day, to be an effective advocate. “Having people from different backgrounds and with different tendencies in the leadership roles helps dismantle that and challenge that notion.”

Playing By Ear

Lee played the violin as a child, and as a parent follows the Suzuki Method with her children, which teaches children to pick up music through exposure and repetition before actually reading music, akin to how they pick up their mother tongue before they learn how to read.

With the method being based upon a parent-teacher-child triangle, Saturdays and even family summer holidays have often been focused around music classes and Suzuki camp. “It’s a refreshing change of pace. In my kids’ violin instructions, we are much less concerned about how quickly they can master something than we are at how perfectly they can learn it. An entire month can be spent dedicated to making sure they can play one musical phrase correctly.” Lee also loves how music brings her family together, including playing violin duets with her children.

Rounding back to literature, Lee is looking forward to reading a book she picked up some months ago at a local bookstore. “It was a ‘blind date’ book where the book is wrapped and you don’t know what it is, but it instead lists other books of similar sentiments. I loved the idea of it and all of the books that were listed on the wrapper, so picked it up with a lot of anticipation.”

By Aimee Hansen

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