Sara Coelho: Partner, Financial Restructuring & Insolvency, Shearman & Sterling LLP

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Sara Coelho“I’m open to things going in a lot of different directions and to seeing things in a different way than people expect,” says Sara Coelho. “I really try to foster that approach, because novel solutions bubble up.”

Coelho talks about why her practice is a jack-of-all-trades art, standing her ground as a woman and the creativity of receptivity within law.

The “Liberal Arts Area of Law”

With Shearman & Sterling since 2016, and promoted to partner this past July, Coelho has been in the insolvency practice for fifteen years.

“Any time you have an insolvency situation, by definition people can’t follow the law. When something isn’t working, you get to take a deep dive into why and have to figure out a way to make something of that, and the tools really vary depending on the business,” she says. “Every situation has its own dimensions, so you constantly get to learn something new. If you are a liberal arts major, you would like what I do.”

Coelho continues, “I’m often doing things I have no prior expertise in, for example, negotiating tax debt and tax statutes, because of the underlying needs of the situation,” she further explains. “Sometimes we litigate to get to a resolution of a dispute. Sometimes we create deals. We’ll use any field of law to construct a deal that takes the situation to a better place.”

Her area is so flexible that when students ask her about a typical day, Coelho tells them to give her a year and she’ll say what she was doing in that period of time. Collaboration with other lawyers and financial advisors is critical to her work: often part of the solution is bringing in the expert who knows the tried-and-true approach, and another is confronting an issue alien to anything she’s ever done. Hence, the sophistication of problems, quality of people and intellectual challenges have held her attention in this field.

The Creativity of Receptivity

Coelho feels persistence has served her. She has always been able to put her head down and commit to a project she’s taken on. She’s been called a “lawyer’s lawyer” in that she has an analytical curiosity and loves to go deep into a problem, which means encouraging a spaciousness for unexpected solutions.

“There’s often a real reluctance to bring forward something that is a little off the wall,” she observes, “but you could miss an opportunity that way.”

In law, creativity is often less conceiving of something new and bringing it into existence, but rather an artful receptivity to the hidden key that already exists that you’re not yet seeing.

“So much of law is a very set underlying body of concepts, and people lose track of a big percentage of it. So often there is just something lurking there, that’s pretty direct and obvious, but actually very hard to see if you don’t come at it with an open mindset,” she explains. “It’s a receptivity, an orientation of faith that there’s going to be useful things that emerge. It’s a melding of a creative mindset with the orthodox.”

Staking Her Ground As A Woman

While Coelho admits her field has an inadequate representation of women, especially senior partners, she also often finds there are more women than she realized. She also feels the reputation of being male-dominated deters women from considering a field they might thrive in: “There are women who are thriving in all of the difficult roles and more than you would think.”

At the same time, Coelho acknowledges that she does feels some pressure to be beyond perfect and tends to speak concisely, getting to her point quickly while she has the moment, whereas she witnesses men talk at length without the social pressure to be precise.

“I’m working on trying to take up more time and space, and defending the perimeter to be able to do that,” she notes, “because sometimes you can’t appropriately advocate otherwise.”

Coelho acknowledges that being a woman distinguishes you, but that advantage can backfire if you’re perceived as the woman lawyer and especially if there’s a general assumption of irrelevance.

For example, on a conference call for a major deal where both Coelho and another female counterpart lawyer represented different clients with predictably different perspectives, the opposing side confused their two arguments, because, she suspects, the woman lawyers’ voices were understood as interchangeable. Coelho finds it hard to imagine that same bewildering lack of differentiation occurring for a man.

“Things still go on, but at the same time, you’re just focused on the problem and the work,” says Coelho. She notes that self-validating verbal feedback from highly respected top lawyers has been a touchstone to measure her lawyering and has kept her from falling into an unproductive level of self-questioning, especially when she’s confronted with aggression or doubt.

Clarifying The “Stupid Questions“

In addition to helping associates become familiar with the essential craft of her “renaissance profession,” Coelho seeks to demystify some of the basics that challenged her. When she first began, she felt one of the hardest parts was just figuring out how things got done – down to how you frame an e-mail and how long you wait to chase up on it.

Coelho volunteers information and invites the conversation around questions she found perplexing when starting out, especially if the response she had was reactive or dismissive: “I try to ask, what would have been the most constructive response for me?”

“For example, as a lawyer, to say how much time should I spend on something is a very loaded question because obviously you should do the best job possible for the client. Well, the best job possible might mean thousands of hours or significant expense, and maybe the client doesn’t want that,” she notes. “So there’s always this judgment about how exactly to approach the problem, how much depth to go in and what are the optimal things to focus on. These are complex judgements people have to make, so I like to be transparent about that kind of process.”

Boiling down why inviting questions as a senior lawyer is important, Coelho says: “The stupid question is the most important one to ask because you definitely don’t want to make a stupid mistake.”

For women in particular, Coelho also emphasizes the importance of really stepping back to ask what you personally want, rather than letting the ongoing demands of your external environment, including simply keeping up with the work, dictate where you end up.

An Unforgettable Mentor

Coelho considers her grandmother the most mindful person she has ever met. As a child, Coelho would join her in hanging laundry, picking fruit or doing some other form of tending to ordinary things.

The most unforgettable moment that affected her was listening to her grandmother talk about one single lemon with such elaborate understanding and appreciation that it underlined a whole wisdom of her Grandmother’s way of living in the world: “Listening to her talk about this lemon and what it was, exactly why it had a different flavor than others and how you would use it, in such depth, crystallized for me her way of being and how wonderful that is. And how much better life is, if you can bring that sort of appreciation and experience to whatever it is you’re doing.”

Coelho adores her three and a half year old son, Caleb, and, in addition to being a prolific reader of social sciences “light” and economics, loves to garden – and as her grandmother, tend attentively to the small and sacred matters of the home.

By Aimee Hansen

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Cheryl Akawie: Head of U.S. Investment Grade Research, PGIM Fixed Income

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“There’s still a notion that all paths in investing lead to investment banking, which dissuades many women from entering into a career in investing, but it’s definitely not the case,” says Cheryl Akawie.

Akawie speaks to holding to your values, the importance of curiosity and why you want to learn from and be the kind of leader you respect.

An Ever-Changing Context

Joining Prudential out of Lehigh University as a finance major, Akawie relatively quickly gravitated from investment auditing to working directly with investments, where she felt her skills and interest would be optimized.

For over 28 years, she’s been working in investments–covering some of the major sectors she began with, such as telecom and cable–and stretching into new sectors such as media and technology.

“Everything changes–the companies have changed, the industries change. Right now, the tech industry is going through tremendous change,” says Akawie. “I’m watching which companies will be winners and losers, so my job stays interesting even within the same sectors.”

Akawie calls herself a ‘credit geek’: “I like to dig into the details of companies and figure out what makes them tick and what they might do next. What will make them successful or not successful as things change–will the big names in linear television be successful when the world has moved to streaming?”


She appreciates how integrated the investment process is from start to finish at PGIM Fixed Income, with hand-in-hand collaboration between analysts and portfolio managers. Taking on a new position leading the U.S. investment grade research team a couple years back has allowed her to support experts across the various sectors, helping ensure the well-established investment process runs smoothly and her teams’ contributions are recognized.

Holding To Your Values

“To me, what has mattered in my success has been being true to myself and not compromising my beliefs. That applies in many different ways,” says Akawie. “For example, I could not be on the sell-side and push an investment idea if I didn’t believe in it. As an analyst, I analyze it and tell it like it is. I’m not going to hold back on my views. Being on the buy-side, we don’t have to buy everything, so it has always been a good natural home for me.”

Going further, she expresses: “I think that principle has stood through all aspects of my career and added to my leadership. You should never compromise your values and you should be willing to stand up for what’s right. You should be willing to stand up for your team.”

Moving into a leadership role has meant taking a more holistic view not only in looking comparatively across industries, but also putting herself in the shoes of others when making organizational decisions.

“If we’re trying to revamp a process, I have to consider what may work better for the team,” she says. “As a leader, it’s important to step out of my role and put myself as the team leader and the organizational leader to consider what is best for the team, regardless of whether it would negatively impact or be inconvenient for me.”

Choosing Your Leadership Approach

Akawie feels her promotion largely came down to her track record on training up more junior analysts across the years. She enjoys working with junior talent and imparting her skills to help develop their ability to analyze, especially appreciating the moment when it all “clicks,” which she argues only happens when the analyst learns to combine fundamental credit research analysis and the relative value decision around which bonds to own.

Her personal leadership approach is to be relatable and approachable, and she keeps an open door policy.

“I had to figure out what kind of leader I wanted to be, and I’ve had different kinds of managers over the years. I’ve had the micromanager, where they want to check over everything that you do. I’ve had the more hands-off manager that recognizes you are a professional,” she says. “I chose to emulate my style more from the latter, because I respected when I was on the other side. I’m here if you need me. I’ll be your coach and advocate. But to get from here to there, use your own style, as long as you get it done.”

Myth-busting: Not All Investment Careers are Investment Banking

In addition to running the investment grade credit research group, Akawie is actively involved in recruiting for the credit research team in addition to sitting on the Talent Council, so she has a special window into the underrepresentation of women.

“It really frustrates me that even now it’s still such a male-dominated industry and in any meeting, there are still noticeably fewer women in the room,” says Akawie, who feels a perception issue plays into this.

“There’s still this perception that all investment careers are investment banking, where you don’t have a life,” she says. “I really wish there was a way to get the message out to young women that there are plenty of fulfilling, lucrative careers that you can have in asset management that don’t involve working 18-hour days and weekends. You can actually live a balanced life while also being a successful investment professional.”

Passion And Curiosity Go A Long Way

Akawie feels that having a passion for investments, as well as a strong intellectual curiosity, is a cornerstone of being a successful credit analyst or portfolio manager.

“Your mind should always be open because you can find investment ideas anywhere. You hear something on the news, or you read an article in Barron’s–you see something not necessarily in your industry, but it could be related,” she notes. “It’s that intellectual curiosity and passion that matters, because it won’t seem like a job, and you’ll have a long and dynamic career.”

Akawie also presses that it’s a measure of intelligence to be honest about what you don’t know, and that it’s critical to remember that in the world of investments, you’re never going to get everything right.

“We’re investing in corporate bonds. They’re not guaranteed. You’re not going to be right 100% of the time,” she says. “One of the harder things when you’re trying to transition somebody from a junior analyst to a senior analyst is developing that willingness to stick your neck out, express your opinion and not be afraid to be wrong. And if you are wrong, admit and own it, don’t make excuses, simply learn and move on.”

She leverages her own curiosity to convert the occasional missed call into a learning experience: “I often review, and I’ll ask what did I miss? What could I have done differently? And, then you make a better investment decision next time because of what you learned this time.”

Being A Leader You Would Respect

Akawie has found informal mentorships are the most valuable kinds of mentoring, which comes back to being open and approachable.

“To be a mentor or to be a mentee, you have to open up and not be afraid to share parts of yourself–so that people actually get to know you and they’re willing to share their secret sauce,” she says. “And I think that comes from having personal relationships. If everything is just business, I think it makes it hard for that relationship to develop.”

When choosing who you wish to learn from, Akawie goes with whom she truly respects. For her, that’s someone who takes pride in their work and gives their full energy, earning the respect of their team, because this is what she values and wishes to do.

Akawie loves traveling the world and seeing new cultures, which have included Africa, Southeast Asia and Hong Kong. Currently, she’s steeped in her latest passion of home remodeling.

By: Aimee Hansen

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Sharon Claffey Kaliouby: VP Strategic Alliances, Learning Pool

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Sharon Claffey KalioubyAs I matured through the corporate world, I saw that many organizations that don’t succeed in L&D are valuing what you know versus what you share,” says Sharon Claffey Kaliouby. “The learning approaches we’re focusing on are a catalyst for change, in creating opportunities to learn collaboratively to facilitate the business goals.”

As a leader in the field of learning and development (L&D), Kaliouby speaks to her life-long love of learning, why paradoxically breaking our educational conditioning is inherent to professional success, and the quandary of the L&D leadership gender gap.

Learning is About Sharing, Not Just Knowing

Named one of the Top 50 Leaders in Learning & Development in 2019 and honored as Learning Professional of the Year in 2018 by The Learning & Performance Institute, Kaliouby is passionate about helping organizations to drive their goals forward by building individual and organization-wide capabilities through education.

“You can spend your entire life doing something that everybody else thinks you should do,” she advises her own daughters. “Or you can do something you totally love and are passionate about, and feel truly alive. That’s the direction you should always go. Stick with your inner gut and don’t let anyone change your mind.”

Kaliouby worked in-house for nearly twenty years before making an intentional move to Learning Pool, a pioneering full-service customized e-learning provider working across a large international client base, from companies to NGOs to higher education.

Kaliouby speaks emphatically about reframing what we value in and how we experience learning: “As we go through our educational system, and almost anywhere in the world, there is one thing that collaboration is usually called: cheating. Collaboration in the school system is called cheating, so we’re educated not to collaborate.”

In academia, success often means not sharing your knowledge but that flips the moment we exit formal education. She notes women are disproportionately represented among top students but not top executives. The early displaced value on autonomous success can also stunt institutional development.

“Innovative organizations are sharing cultures who want employees to share their success and knowledge with other colleagues. You’re not elevated in the organization based on how much more you know than others, but how much you share the knowledge,“ observes Kaliouby.

Learning that Values Your Participation

With Learning Pool, the L&D objectives begin with asking what learning is going to be most directly valuable to the core organizational goals. The strategic approach is that learners not only comprehend the content, but are also involved in their education, with their participation being a factor in the measure of their learning success. Sharing (such as comments in an online forum) becomes weighted by the richness of knowledge the individual holds and shares, rather than their title.

Kaliouby is increasingly motivated by Learning Pool’s Learning Experience Platform (LXP) Stream, which is designed to enable the self-determined learner to find and to access particular courses they need or want for themselves. She points out that the rush to compulsory online education in the past eighteen months widely replicated the classroom rather than customizing education for the positive capabilities of this medium, and this has potentially created resistance to online learning among a whole generation of students. But at the same time, that challenging experience may compel reflection from those students, based on what they truly needed, that compels developments yet to come in the L&D space.

Going Back to Being Human and Being Learners

When it comes to remote working, ‘upskilling’ and ‘reskilling’ are part of the hot themes right now, and with Covid-19, the L&D field has moved towards the human side of business in many ways – such as skilling up on EQ, capacity for empathy and holistic communication skills.

“Some people that were hired as a CEO in 2018 were not equipped to be the chief empathy office of 2020 or 2021. But what’s nice is the human equation is now being valued, as much as learning data analytics in the scientific backgrounds were highly valued,” notes Kaliouby. “We need soft skills now because we’re all in crisis mode, but I hope it’s more than a trend.”

From her perspective, we’re circling back to the 1990’s when family and kids were invited into the office or gatherings. Whereas in the 2000’s, the 9/11 and financial crises put sustained employment into more jeopardy, and it became safer emotionally not to know each other so personally. With Zoom, we’re invited back into witnessing colleagues in their lives outside of work, and this impacts learning too.

“Now, we want learning to be about the whole person. When you’re learning something in your organization, to better the business goals, you also want to be building for yourself too,” says Kaliouby. “You’re building knowledge that’s going to make you a different, more insightful or more aware person, regardless of what the topic is.”

She notes that for the first time, a lot of people have the space and bandwidth to take up guitar or language lessons online, for example, rather than just be entertained. We are in some way becoming learners again, who wish to be effective in all spherical aspects of our lives.

Why Are There Too Few Women Leaders in L&D?

In 2013, Kaliouby became the co-founder of #WomeninLearning, which actively promotes women in learning and leadership – supporting an awareness of gender equality and an environment committed to a more diverse future. Bringing great talent into an industry is not the same as threading that talent up to leadership, and the gender gap at the top of L&D is astounding considering it’s a predominantly female field.

2019 research data showed that while women are coming into the learning field as 2/3 of support roles, and many assume women lead the field, they actually comprise less than 1/3 of senior authority roles at the leadership level. Compared to a male-dominated field like finance, Kaliouby notes, “It’s even worse news because we have more women in the learning sector, and we’re still flipping it: there’s more men than women leaders.”

#WomeninLearning has raised the conversation, even in the context of her own household: “I see my daughter, who is in the workforce, sharing her salary with her friends and speak adamantly that she can’t understand why the guys over there that didn’t do as well in school are making more money. They’re stating, ‘we’re not going to stand for this and we’re not going to stand for diversity of thought not to be valued’.”

Due to a recent company acquisition, Kaliouby has had the opportunity to become more familiar with Higher Education, and finds the approach to managing gender dynamics intriguing: “In Higher Education, the women actively state they don’t care about the title, but they want to earn equal pay. I think in the corporate world, we focused too much on wanting the right title, but if we’re never going to catch up on the salary, that’s to the side.”

Not only does the notion of not having equal room for women in leadership (“space for one”) work against women helping to bring other women up, but Kaliouby notes that the ‘confidence gap’ has a real basis in hiring trends: “Women are hired on their experience not their potential, and men are hired on their potential,” she says. “And that is the biggest disaster in regards to the gender gap in learning.” Women self-select themselves out of applying for a job if they do not have the exact background and this is even more limiting (we can’t get there if we are not even applying for the roles).

She notes that 94% of C-Suite women have all played a sport, and playing sports builds both a grit and resilience, as well as learning what you’re particularly skilled at, and what you’re not.

So she recommends picking up a new sport: “If you pick up something brand-new, you’ll know what it’s like to start and be an entry level person. You’ll know that awkward feeling, the ability not to fully understand your full map, and you might develop another angle of empathy as well.”

A two-time member of the USFA National gold medal women’s sabre fencing team herself, Kaliouby recently began a couple of new sports, including pickle ball. She accredits her athletic background for giving her a perseverance that has served her professional journey.

A Lifelong Appreciation of Self-Development

“I could have been a full-time student forever. That was always my desire, she says. “I do feel like I’m a lifelong learner now.”

When reflecting back on her passion and love for learning, Kaliouby feels the valuing of education in her Irish Catholic family home in Boston imprinted strongly upon her. She witnessed her father get his diploma while employed as a Policeman, and he emphasized to her that the one thing someone can never take away from you is your intelligence. He went on to become a university professor of criminal justice. Though she lost him young, her own passion for learning today carries on his legacy of the drive to realize further capacities and visions that are seeded within oneself.

Both of her daughters, top achievers academically, carried on the family legacy of valuing education and learned Arabic growing up (with mom auditing class with them as well), as their father is Egyptian. In addition to continuing her sports participation with fencing, pickle ball and more, learning sign language is the next personal stretch that Kaliouby has her eyes set on.

By: Aimee Hansen

Learning Pool offers innovative learning platforms not only including the LXP Stream, but also a Learning Management System and a Learning Record Store (LRS) titled Learning Locker (one of the most downloaded LRS’ in the world). Learning Pool also offers off the shelf courseware (as well as custom courses). Kaliouby is most proud of the Corporate Social Responsibility courses made available for ALL at no cost on their website – including courses focused on climate change, mental health, stress, anxiety and the uncomfortable truth of racial inequality.

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Loredana Crisan: VP, Messaging Experience — Messenger & Instagram

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Loredana CrisanIn her role at Meta, Loredana Crisan leads the product and engineering teams crafting messaging experiences for the billion-strong community on Messenger and Instagram. From formally studying musical composition in her birth country of Romania to influencing how we connect daily at one of tech’s giants, Crisan shares with theglasshammer on why she focuses on creating over achieving, how her background in music infuses her creative approach to designing experiences and how building teams of complementary experts is like creating a symphony orchestra.

Q. You’ve gone from studying musical composition in Romania, to product and graphic design in tech, to heading up the entire product experience on Messenger. What thread have you followed to be where you are?

My formal education is in classical music, and I didn’t study STEM or design in school. It would have been easy for people to brush me off and assume I wasn’t qualified for a career in tech. However, my educational background in music composition and the years spent practicing an instrument has helped shape my focus on long term outcomes and helped me develop my own leadership and problem-solving skills.

My success was not a straight path, especially not being an American and not trained as a designer. But, I never thought of these as hurdles, instead I remained open to opportunities.

I did not make an explicit decision to work in tech — I joined a start-up as a sound engineer. We were working on a product, and I really wanted to make that product better. To do that, I had to switch mediums from sound to visuals. Using my creativity from music, I went from different mediums, sound to UI. Moving to Product, I went from creating the experience to executing the experience, and leaning into the vision for how people use the experience.

Q. How do you see the tech industry as enhanced by non-traditional candidates like yourself?

As a product team leader, when recruiting, I seek out qualities like resourcefulness, creativity, and other traits that don’t necessarily jump off the page when reading a resume or browsing a LinkedIn profile.

I’d encourage all product leaders to be more open-minded throughout the recruitment process. Just because a candidate’s background differs from the conventional, doesn’t mean they aren’t qualified.

Q. We understand you are passionate about “relinquishing gender stereotypes” in the tech industry. Tell us more about your experience as a woman in tech.

I honestly wish the world was a lot less gendered. Biases exist of course, but looking at my tween kids, they’re starting to reject these constructs and it’s so much freer for them.

I’ve worked in male-dominated industries quite a bit. I have a deep belief that regardless of gender, if you overcome imposter feelings, you learn, develop and grow. I don’t stop to think about what would have happened if I wasn’t a woman.

I’ve learned to embrace my inner self and inner weirdness and break away from stereotypes – even gender. You can see this expressed in artwork we design on Messenger. We’re hoping to help people express how they really feel whether that’s through an AR effect, camera sticker, or 360-degree immersive background.

Q. You emphasize “creating vs. achieving” as a secret to your success. Can you expand on what this means to you?

In a music setting, you don’t just pick what you want to play and skip ahead to the performance. It’s all about what goes into the preparation and development of that performance.

This is true for product teams too. Focusing on the outcome exclusively robs your team of the joy of paying attention to the details. To set your team up for success, allow them to focus on the flow of making something exciting every step of the way.

For example, earlier this year when we unveiled Soundmojis, our team was focused on creating fun, delightful sounds that could be used across a broad range of contexts. In one instance, our sound engineers even travelled to an organic California farm to record actual goats! By allowing my team to be creative and enjoy the process of developing the Soundmojis, we were ultimately able to create experiences that are also fun for our users.

Q. You have paralleled building a team of experts to auditioning a band and compared working with teams to creating a symphony. Can you tell us more?

The beauty of an orchestra performance lies in hearing very different instruments come together to create one harmonious and complex piece of music. Whether you’re performing in front of an audience, developing hardware, or creating a new user interface (UI), putting together an effective team means thinking in a holistic manner.

If you were to hire only cellists for an orchestra, the resulting music would be limited to their specialist capabilities. It would miss the rhythmic beat of the percussion section, the timbre of the brass section, and so much more. Similarly, if you have a team made up of designers, your product may have a beautiful UI but clunky functionality supporting it. It’s only when you have the right mix of skills, along with an open work environment, that all the necessary elements can come together.

Also keep in mind that generalists can give your team more flexibility whereas specialists bring a high level of expertise in their field. When working on a project, having those generalists involved can help ensure every part of a product is getting the attention it needs throughout development. Any good team needs a mix of specialists and generalists to bring a variety of skills and perspectives to building products.

When we’re working, I like to tell my team to “mind the gap” – meaning the gap between what they do, whether that’s engineering, design, or business strategy, and what their teammates do. This is where the real opportunity lies for teams to be creative, push boundaries and deliver innovations to users.

Q. What particularly fascinates you and propels you each day?

Life happens on Messenger. Anything that can happen with friends and family can happen together on the app. It’s interesting to work on a product that has so much humanity baked in. When I decided not to be a musician anymore, I wanted to go back to school to learn psychology. Of course, much of psychology has to do with relationships. I was interested in how people relate to one another. Messenger is a place where people grow old and form new relationships.

Q. What does it mean to “push the boundaries” in your work? What are some of the key trends that grasp your attention, and where do you think we are going next?

To push the boundaries in modern communication means to continue to innovate how we can bring people together and build close connections via Messenger. Some key messaging trends that grasp my attention would be the evolution of multimedia, audio, and video.

Over 1.4 billion images are sent every day on Messenger–meaning nearly every 1 in 20 messages sent on Messenger is a photo. For the true math whizzes, that’s about 12,000 photos per second! While photos will always play an important role in visual communication and building close connections, I suspect that audio will begin to override image messaging as the trend continues to rise. Messenger hit an all-time high with people sending more than 400 million voice notes daily.

Additionally, video has become an extension of messaging, especially as keeping in touch took on a new level of importance as a global pandemic sent us all indoors. We had to adapt to a new way of communicating and with the pandemic in full swing, we saw the number of people in group video and audio calls nearly double earlier this year compared to last year, with time in calls growing 150%. To create a space where you could hang out and connect with your closest friends, Messenger also introduced Rooms and offered a virtual living room space to enjoy new memories when they couldn’t be in-person with Watch Together. It’s exciting to see all of the ways people are using the platform together.

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Stephanie Schultz: VP & Head of Partnerships, Amex Digital Labs

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Stephanie Schultz“It’s essential to create the space for people to be heard, especially when some aren’t as comfortable voicing their opinions,” says Stephanie Schultz. “I don’t want to be in a meeting and have everybody agree with a particular direction or discussion. I want to hear the people who are dissenting, or might have a different perspective, because it’s a pressure test – it’s helping to make sure that we’re getting to the most thoughtful outcome.”

Schultz talks looking ahead of yourself in the job hunt, going for the win-win in strategic partnerships, working in a get-it-right fintech culture and the merits of adaptive leadership.

“It’s About The Next, Next Job”

Having no clear idea of what exactly she wanted to do after college other than live in NYC, Schultz graduated with an economics and business degree from Lafayette College – feeling she’d have the breadth to explore her options while getting her feet wet.

But in 2009, she inherited a tough job market in which few of her peers were landing any positions. It was tempting to take the first offer that came – an executive assistant role at a small audio-visual music company – until a previous internship manager questioned whether it was the direction she truly wanted to go.

“She was the one who really encouraged me that whenever I was to think about a job, it’s not about that job. It’s about the next, next job,” reflects Schultz. “That was so important, because in the moment, I had not thought that way – and it was hard to turn down a job at a time when no one was getting them, but I did.”

Schultz kept applying, including at American Express. She did not get the first role she applied for, but the hiring leader recommended her for another better-suited opening, which she then landed.

“I didn’t plan to be working in fintech or at a financial services company, but I was attracted to the brand and the values of the company,” says Schultz. “So thinking about the next, next job, I realized I could spend a long time at Amex, learn a bunch of different things and really launch my career.”

Twelve years on, she’s moved from product development to heading up partnerships for Amex Digital Labs, the innovation hub working to make Amex a leader in fintech. Her team is focusing on developing the next generation of products, customer benefits and membership experiences across the evolving digital landscape through partnerships with both major tech companies and start-ups.

The Strategy of Win-Win Partnership in Fintech

“There is so much disruption happening in payments, which has really excited me and kept me passionate about the work itself,” says Schultz. “The technology is continuously evolving and so are customer needs. Payments are so foundational to everyday life, so it’s exciting to keep learning, to be on the cutting edge of improving and innovating, and to make a tangible impact in something that people do every single day.”

A recent product Schultz introduced, called Send & Split, was created in partnership with PayPal and Venmo, synonymous with peer-to-peer payments. Rather than create their own platform, the Amex Digital Labs team worked with PayPal and Venmo to develop a unique digital integration within the Amex mobile app to create a better customer experience – enabling Card Members to send money to friends and family without the standard Venmo or Paypal credit card fee. Her team also developed value-added features like enabling the splitting of transactions, such as an AirBNB stay or dinner, making it seamless to share bills and ease the social interactions between users.

Not only does she have a reputation for getting stuff done, but also for being able to navigate the tougher territories of strategic partnership. She feels if you come from a receptive solution space, there is often a win-win meeting ground to be found amidst conflict.


“I feel that throughout the years at Amex, I’ve been the person at the helm of some of the more complex questions or unique products,” reflects Schultz. “When a lot of people are saying it just can’t be done, that is the point at which they bring me in to help lead and figure it out.”

Her approach is not to force or strong-arm an outcome but rather – in the context of long-standing relationships across multiple lines of Amex business, complicated initiatives, and unchartered territories – to seek and find a workable and lasting solution for all involved.

“Building relationships is core to what I do, and it’s about thinking of the bigger picture and setting those partnerships up for success,” reflects Schultz. “I used to enter a negotiation feeling as though it’s my side versus your side. Throughout the years, I’ve completely shifted my perspective: it’s not me versus you. We’re in this together, and we want this to be a lasting partnership. So how do I find what really works for both of us? It’s about being real and authentic and transparent with your objectives, and what you’re both trying to achieve, and how you can get there most effectively, together.”

An Integrated Culture of Doing it Right

One of the hardest moments at work was the day Schultz told her boss she was pregnant, because she realized she was anxious about moving towards a time of managing multiple priorities, with family first, and how big of a change it would personally be for her.

“That was a difficult moment to navigate and come to that realization, but now has been the greatest gift of all,” says Schultz. “Becoming a mom has helped me to be more efficient and effective at prioritizing my time and has been a net positive thing on who I am as an all-around human being and empathetic leader.”

Fintech is not at all a “move fast and break things” culture as you might expect, because with working with heavy regulations and major tech companies, the work culture is far more focused on doing it right than just doing it fast.

“The culture at American Express has been something that has kept me in this role. It’s a culture that welcomes the diversity of perspectives and ideas and makes the space for that,” she observes. “You would think the culture might have multiple layers of hierarchy and you have to navigate that, but that has not been my experience. The expert is in the room while the presentation is happening.”

Former Amex Vice Chairman Ed Gillian, whom Schultz was inspired by, was often on the ground floor around projects that were driving digital transformation, working beside managers and analysts.

Digital Labs also has creative ways of cultivating inspiration, as ideas come from any direction. Regularly, her team has inspiration calls where they can share anything, from an article to a new app feature, that may be inspiring them. When it comes to ideas from the ground up, the team has a forum and toolkit to equip anyone with the spark of inspiration to be able to go from idea stage to concept and then to action, while also having access to the investment and resources to get the project off the ground.

Being Adaptive in Leadership

The one thing she most wishes to impart on her mentees is the power of belief and the feeling of being championed, pointing out how teacher Rita Pierson inspired a classroom of struggling students in an underprivileged community to succeed by reframing the way they perceived themselves: “I think that sometimes people’s potential can be redefined based on what other people see in them. There were moments throughout my career when I didn’t necessarily see myself having that potential, but I had a mentor or a sponsor who saw that in me. Everybody deserves that.”

Within the Women’s Interest Network in Amex, Schultz is involved in the Ready To Lead program, mentoring and creating connections for aspiring leaders from other business units. She’s often found mentoring more like building a relationship, and particularly in her role, she often learns about new features and products from her mentees.

When it comes to being a leader, Schultz is thoroughly committed to supporting the unique working processes of each individual she manages, rather than imposing her own style of work.

“I have a more adaptive leadership style with my team. Some people might want me to roll my sleeves up and get in and white-board with them. Other people might prefer to take the challenge away and come back to me later with ideas,” says Schultz. “I personally feel I am there to set the charter for the team, to set the vision and the goals. I believe in a model of service to the people on my team. What works for you to be effective and then how do I flex my support based on what you need, to be a sounding board and roadblock remover and helpful guide along the way?”

While her style is more casual than the normal latitude of management approaches in financial services, being authentic in her own leadership has resonated and served her team and success.

Schultz spends as much time as she can with her toddler, Cooper. Since becoming a working mom, savasana has gone from the pose she could not stay still for to a treasured and glorious moment.

By Aimee Hansen

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15 Tips For Elevating Your Leadership Mindset

We’ve rounded up some of the most acute advice on elevating yourself to a leadership mindset, from the women leaders we’ve interviewed in our Voices of Experience leadership series this year.

1. Don’t Shy Away From Hard Truths

“To be a good leader, you need to be able to cheer your team on with all the good stuff. But to make changes and keep progressing, you also need to be willing to address the challenges and difficult matters,” notes Marcia Diaz of PGIM Real Estate. “I think people appreciate direct and honest feedback and ‘knowing where they stand.’”

2. Let Go of Certainty

“Women have a tendency to be very certainty driven, and they end up not taking as many risks and opportunities. It’s like that quote ‘doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will’,” says Monica Marquez of Beyond Barriers. “Women need to be much more open to taking the opportunity and embracing just-in-time learning, so they don’t rob themselves before they try.”

3. Keep Personal Fulfillment As a Priority

“Someone once told me that when your career takes off, something else is going to suffer. For a long time, I was convinced that you have to work very hard while other things would have to take a backseat,” says Anna de Jong of PGIM Fixed Income. “You are actually more successful when you understand what is really important to you and cultivate personal satisfaction, as well.”

4. Set Your Vision Ahead

“The more senior you get, the more you are responsible for steering and being able to see around the corner and anticipating the different challenges that you’ll face along the way,” says Katherine Stoller of Shearman & Sterling. “You get more experienced at identifying the problems you may be seeing tomorrow.”

5. Broaden Your Circle of Concern

“When I was subsequently promoted…I remember asking myself: am I willing to fight for my team, even to the extent that I may compromise my job? Am I willing to fight for my team for what is right?” say Geklang Lee of PGIM Real Estate, Asia-Pacific. “Only when I was prepared to do that, did I accept the role.”

6. Lead With the Space For Growth

“When you are hands on, you do things a certain way and tend to believe others should do it the same way. But people have different approaches, and it takes time to admit to yourself those approaches are fine, and so are the consequences,” says Silke Soennecken of Commerzbank New York. “You are supporting the growth of people by allowing them to also make mistakes. You’re going to support and guide them, but there’s purpose in delegating and giving others the opportunity to grow and shine in their own way.”

7. Don’t Just Manage, Inspire

“I would rather be a leader than manager. To be a good leader, you really do have to have a vision, a mission. I want people to feel inspired to get on board with what we’re doing and feel purpose and connection,” says Erika Karp of Pathstone. “Management is structural and systems and measures and accountability are critical. But I don’t love management as much as I love leadership.”

8. Model A Leadership that Gives Power Away

“One thing I learned through my community organizing training with Midwest Academy is this idea of leadership: that giving power away is how you grow a powerful movement,” says Caroline Samponaro of Lyft. “I focus on imparting that message to those I manage: how are we giving away power to build a strength of team and community that can be that much more successful?”

9. Know Your Network of Influence

“People often want to go directly to the key decision maker and say ‘get to know me’, but if you get to know the influencers of the key decision makers, you become an influencer in the organization as well,” says Natalie Tucker of Radioligand Therapy. “When joining an organization, this is a good first step for those who are more introverted and looking to quickly create positive impact on the business because you’re able to have honest dialogues on key matters. It’s about reading the organization, and learning about its people – not their title, but who they are, and their communication networks. Once you understand the communication network of an organization, you can navigate it well.”

10. Invite Being Challenged

“I’m completely open to, and actually encourage, my team telling me when I’m wrong. I invite them to convince me that I’m wrong. I love that!” says Grace Lee of S&P Global. “I want us to have the best ideas, and that’s only possible when we are all contributing, debating and challenging each other.”

11. Stay Grounded In Yourself

“Some people would say you shouldn’t necessarily point out or emphasize the difference,” reflects Nneka Orji of Morrinson Wealth Management UK,“but I think it was so helpful in terms of me knowing who I was and who I am, and being true to myself. Of course I wasn’t always as confident in this respect and I’ve grown a lot since, but being comfortable in your own skin, in terms of your own history and culture, is critical. As long as you know who you are, you know your motivations, your boundaries and you make decisions in line with these.”

12. Diversify Your Personal Board of Directors

“I realized the people I go to often are very similar to me, so when I go to them for advice, they’re probably going to give me what I want to hear,” says Leah Meehan of State Street. “So I have one person on my board who has been a friend for a long time, and he tells me ‘how it is’. He does not hold anything back, to the point it sometimes upsets me, but he’s helping me to move ahead; I need more of those people, to diversify my board.”

13. Stand Tall in Your Value

“The biggest thing I think I took away from mentors and coaches over the years was to learn to give a value to myself,” says Beverly Jo Slaughter of Wells Fargo Advisers. “External recognition is a wonderful thing, but we all have to learn to give recognition to ourselves, to recognize when we have done well, to celebrate our value and feel confident that we bring it to the table.”

14. Come From an Intrapreneurial Mindset

“So as I think of being an ‘intrapreneurial executive,’ I bring that same sense of acting like an owner to the organization I work for. I’m going to be constantly thinking about ways of improving the business,” says Linda Descano of Red Havas. “I act like I own it, as if it’s my investment. It’s working with that same sense of responsibility and drive to make it grow.”

15. Foster a Longterm Perspective

“It’s a long career and so easy to get wrapped up in the here and the now, especially when you start out,” says Emily Leitch of Shearman & Sterling. “But you really have to remember — when you feel overwhelmed, when you’re in a transaction and it’s all-consuming — you have to be able to ride those waves and think from a long-term perspective.”

By Aimee Hansen

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Laura Ansloos: Company Head, apio

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Laura Ansloos“Training is very heavily criticized for its return on investment. Well, why is that?” asks Laura Ansloos. “What happens when the whole picture is not taken into account before training is deemed to be the answer to the problem? What may be working against training within an organization? What are the other forces at play within organizations that drive behavior change, or impact on individual’s performance?”

She continues, “Going down the trajectory of organizational psychology has given me the words to articulate these matters with my clients, help them see the plurality of some of the issues they are dealing with and to find ways to move forward.”

Ansloos talks about her passion for behavioral economics & organizational psychology, how the training issue is often a failure to diagnose the problem and why L&D truly belongs both at the leadership table and in problem-solving teams.

Reclaiming Her Own Trajectory

As often happens when you step on a certain track, the track can begin to take you along it—until you find yourself at the top of a trajectory you never set out for.

With a degree in biochemistry from McMaster University in Canada, Ansloos did not identify with the idea she held of being a scientist in a lab, so ended up pursuing medical communications, a specialist service within public relations and advertising that works with mostly pharmaceutical clients. She quickly fell into client management, gaining higher profile roles and bigger clients in little time and moving up through the business development and commercial leadership route.

Ansloos moved towards the e-learning industry by joining a leading learning solutions firm, Epic, where she managed multi-sector client portfolios such as Civil Service in the UK, Burberry, Diageo, Barclays Bank, EasyJet, and British Airways, helping them transform their internal learning & development offerings towards digital. Soon enough, and amidst a merger, she was Managing Director EMEA of LEO Learning.

“I reached what would be considered a pinnacle if you’re working in a client services career trajectory. But I didn’t love it,” she admits. “I remember always saying that I never want to be responsible for the money, but that’s the trust you build. That’s how it went and where it went to.”

Ansloos wanted to gravitate towards her passion of being more “hands on” with problem-solving around her client’s people and performance matters, and further away from managing the provision of services to clients. She’s been making progress in that direction by leading consulting on workplace learning and performance strategy with Ogilvy Health, heading up the Ogilvy Health UK company apio, and is currently attaining her Masters in Organizational Psychology at Birkbeck, University of London to go further.

Through the depth and breadth of her experiences in management, she’s developed an acute, insightful overview of why training is often set up to fail. Now she seeks to bridge her management and leadership background with adult learning, behavioral science and psychology to create meaningful behavior change intervention in the workplace.

The Missing Diagnostic: Is It Really a Training Problem?

As a new manager with a team of 25 direct reports, reading The Five Dysfunctions of a Team nearly 15 years ago is what first ignited Ansloos’ fascination in understanding behavioral motivation, the psychology of management and leading change. She then became interested in behavioral economics, with popular books like Thinking, Fast and Slow, Predictably Irrational and also Inside the Nudge Unit, which explores how the UK government uses behavioral economics.

“I was reading all this stuff and thinking, why don’t we use this in organizations? Why is this thinking not there?” she wondered, which led her to another question: “Why does training have such a bad reputation? Why is it so often ineffective?”

Ansloos points to the value of using behavioral science insights to inform interventions in individual performance or behavior change in the workplace. For example, we are more motivated by the fear of loss, due to its emotional impact, than we are by gain (prospect theory). We also have a tendency to do as others do, particularly if we identify with them (so called social norms). Armed with these sorts of insights, one can expose hidden opportunities to influence behavior change in the workplace.

For example, she was asked by a client to help provide an educational piece to their leadership team on the value of strategic partnerships. They needed their leadership’s advocacy and support, otherwise the rest of the organization would not understand why partnerships were needed. The challenge was that those partnerships were not yet delivering immediate or tangible commercial gains and came with risk, and so their value was being questioned and “ears and minds of leaders were closing”.

Ultimately, Ansloos and her team used psychology and behavioral science to frame interventions. They set out a value proposition for partnerships using a loss aversion frame: without partnerships, the future leadership position of the organization as an innovator was at risk. They used social/occupational norms and commitment devices to encourage leaders to go public to their peers and share their personal story on what convinced them to “give partnerships a chance to shine” and ask their peers to do the same. While the brief started with an educational request, the team ultimately intervened with psychology to reframe partnerships not as a long term gain but as a way to avoid material losses, and ensured that giving partnerships a chance was “the done thing” among leaders.

Bridging the Gap

Observing that small changes play a huge role in creating significant performance results, Ansloos sees more opportunity to bridge the gap between psychology and management: “Because I’m not an academic, I have that opportunity to help bridge the gap, because it is missing and it’s a very under-tapped area in organizations. We need that expertise of organizational psychology to help widen the lens of the relationship between people and work.”

The big “miss” she sees in L&D is the too often absence of diagnostics around the problem itself. Often organizations leap frog to training as a reflex. But if the issue is not a training (capability) problem to begin with, training will not solve anything.

Ansloos loves the simple and academically grounded COM-B model that says behavior results from capability, opportunity and motivation: “Using this kind of diagnostic lens you say, ‘this is the problem that the business is having, but we first need to see if it’s a capability issue, an opportunity issue or a motivational issue – and then design our interventions accordingly.”

She gives the example of R&D lab scientists in a pharmaceutical company who weren’t filling out timesheets that financial regulators required: “The organization just wanted to implement training on the time sheeting system. But by taking a behavioral lens, we helped them to understand that they didn’t have a knowledge deficit issue that scientists didn’t know how to timesheet. They had a motivational deficit because R&D scientists don’t see it as their job to be commercial entities.”

Rather than training on timesheet completion, which would never have helped, they did psychology-based nudge interventions, like making the task both simple and social, so that scientists witnessed each other doing it and followed along, using the social notion of the ‘in-group’.

“A progressive organization values and understands the mindset of always learning and has the ability to evaluate its systems, its own psychology, its policies, wider society and the expectations it operates within,” observes Ansloos. “It can diagnose what its issues are and where and when training or learning strategy is needed, and what other behavioral interventions may be best required to help solve problems, make better decisions or fulfill individual potential.”

L&D Belongs Across & Within Teams

“Having been in management roles for so long, I know how important it is to get these things right and how much it can bring to the table, so I really believe in this work,” says Ansloos. “I can explain things in a way that is easier to understand and relatable.”

She has been honing her ability to question accepted knowledge, not just relying on status quo but being willing to step back and ask ‘why are we doing it this way’.

This kind of critical thinking is often missing in organizations— this fear to challenge, or to ask a question in the spirit of actually trying to get to a better place,” says Ansloos.

She feels that L&D suffers from being a subset of Human Resources, which is female-dominated but with far too few seats at the leadership table. This is why the notion of the Chief Learning Officer comes in: “Learning is so central for individuals and the organization. Why isn’t it given a more strategic or louder voice in the leadership part of business?”

Ansloos notes HR is perceived as being less strategically tied to business or adding less value, so L&D gets these associations too: “But re-skilling is the number one priority for most CEOs or leaders at the moment. Well, that is learning and development.”

In her years of experience as a learning consultant, she has been surprised to find she is only working with the marketing teams on the client side, with a limited base of learning as extensive as knowing what their predecessor did.

“L&D should be across and integrated into all functional areas of a business. It shouldn’t be departmentalized,” notes Ansloos. “Training is often the first thing to be blamed, so it needs a competency and understanding that is centered and situated within teams that have a broader understanding of when, why and how training is effective.”

Asking Why

With one year to go in her organizational psychology degree, a wife and two children of seven and five years old, Ansloos keeps very busy these days.

In her children, she witnesses the ability to center themselves, question why things are how they are and challenge assumptions—and she plans to keep on encouraging it and learning from them, too.

By Aimee Hansen

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Emily Leitch: Capital Markets Partner, Shearman & Sterling

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Emily Leitch “Early in my law career, I felt like there was an established hierarchy and I was hesitant to speak out of turn. I wish I’d broken that notion sooner and had more confidence in my own voice,” reflects Emily Leitch. For sure, respect is earned along the way, but I love seeing the confidence of the incoming female associates today and value their insights. I hope I had a small hand in creating more open dialogue for future generations.”

Leitch speaks to staying focused on your path, leveraging your unique presence and sustaining yourself through the long Big Law journey.

Gravitating Towards Capital Markets

Leitch began in investment banking out of college before deciding to attend University of Texas School of Law after two years. Exploring both securities and mergers and acquisitions (M&A), she felt more magnetized to becoming an expert in capital markets.

“I love that we get to interact with the heart of leadership of the company, and to hear not only about the transaction, but also their strategies and their business,” she says. “You come to know and understand the company’s business, so that you can describe it properly to investors, and ascertain the potential risks and opportunities.”

Not only does Leitch enjoy the high profile client interaction and broad business exposure, but because the intense transactional periods are often accorded in timing to SEC deadlines, she also feels the overall flow is less volatile than the peaks and valleys of M&A law.

Reflecting back, she was probably most surprised to realize how rules-based and regulatory in nature the practice is, which means constantly keeping up with changes in laws and regulations that come with different administrations and different agendas.

Joining Shearman in February, she loves that there’s always more growth and a new challenge: “This is not a career where you’re learning curve ever really flattens. It’s always on an upward trajectory and constantly being engaged intellectually has been something I really enjoy. And the people that I get to work with and am surrounded by — the associates, partners, clients — are all smart, motivated, wonderful, and well-rounded people.”

Staying Attuned To Your Own Development

“As a young associate, you hear ‘so and so billed this many hours’, ‘so and so got to work on that transaction’, and people can get really wrapped up in the competitive nature of it. But from the start of my career, I was pretty good at tuning out that noise,” reflects Leitch on what has contributed to her personal success: “I was good at keeping my head down, doing good work that I was proud of, and walking into the office every day thinking, ‘I’m going to do the very best I can do’.”

Making partner at just eight years and named by Law360 in 2017 as one of the top five lawyers nationally under 40 in the area of capital markets, her focus on her own work has served her well.

“I’m a good team player, so people generally like working with me. I think being naturally social has also helped a lot, as my network is really wide. I enjoy taking part in organizations and leadership teams and committees — from the legal profession to church to school — which also helps me keep some context in this industry,” notes Leitch. “As you grow in this business, it becomes so relationship-driven.”

She’s often heard the reflection that she is high energy, confident and strong, even when she hasn’t exactly felt that way — especially when she was juggling young children with returning to work.

A highly memorable moment of her journey was when, with two babies at home, she had reached a breaking point and was ready to side-shift to any kind of less demanding peripheral position. While informing Leitch that she just short of making partner, a head of her department encouraged her to hold on through the difficult phase and keep the course, and the team just needed to give her the support she needed.

“I’m so glad I held on, because when you make partner in this industry, it opens a lot more doors. If I had gone all that way to stop right before that finish line, my career would be totally different, and I wouldn’t be where I am today,” reflects Leitch. “But sometimes, as women you just you need that support. You need to vent to somebody or say I can’t do this. She was able to really help me through that, and I remember because it was absolutely career-defining.”

Leveraging Your Presence in The Room

While there have been many female associates across firms she’s worked in, Leitch has often been the only female partner in the room or even only woman at all, considering she works a lot with investment bankers, but notes that she didn’t use to notice it and has rarely focused on it — somehow seeing mostly male faces on Zoom has made it more salient.

“It’s not something that I’ve considered a bad thing, and frankly, I’ve probably considered it an asset and used that as an opportunity to stand out,” says Leitch. “I’ve been fortunate along my career to work with very supportive men, who are supportive of women and have helped me develop my career tremendously.”

While it might not be at a conscious level, Leitch is aware that even her presence in the room commands noticing, and feels perhaps that has empowered her to value and use her voice and her ability to influence.

“People see me as a female leader, and I think younger female associates have always looked up to me as a trailblazer in a sense,” she observes. “I’ve never really thought of myself that way: I just did my best work along the way and didn’t care if I was a man or a woman or who I was working with, but it’s nice to help bring other women up behind me.”

Remember It’s a Long Career Journey

“If I could go back and change one thing, it would be to ask more questions and to have more confidence approaching senior people,” says Leitch. “When I was the junior associate, I’d try to figure it out on my own or go to another associate.”

With the value of hindsight, she intentionally tries to be approachable and open.

Leitch has also learned through experience, and impresses upon associates, that while every transaction may feel like a dead sprint, it’s important to remember you’re in it for the marathon.

“It’s a long career and so easy to get wrapped up in the here and the now, especially when you start out,” she notes. “But you really have to remember — when you feel overwhelmed, when you’re in a transaction and it’s all-consuming — you have to be able to ride those waves and think from a long-term perspective.”

With time, she’s learned where to give it her all, which she often has, and where to put her boundaries up and give focus where it’s needed now, to make work-life integration work for her.

“Some days work has to come first. Some days, children have to come first. Some days my husband has to come first,” says Leitch. “We’re all balancing things in our lives, and the longer you do it, the more you instinctively know where the ball cannot be dropped that day.”

Leitch has enjoyed the opportunity to pick her nine year old son and seven year old daughter up from school everyday, as a result of the remote workplace. Much of her personal time is spent engaging in what excites them — from Astros’ baseball games to Tik Tok dance videos.

She’s all about her Peloton at the moment (a pandemic purchase) and as a creative outlet to her highly mental vocation, she feeds her life-long affection for theatre, finding pocketed opportunities to perform, including playful covers of Lady Gaga, Whitney Houston, Vanilla Ice and MC Hammer at Teacher Appreciation Days at her kids’ schools. With a mix of fun, family and a successful legal career, ‘you can’t touch her’.

By: Aimee Hansen

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Marcia Diaz: Managing Director, PGIM Real Estate

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Marcia Diaz “Wherever you are, get the best experience, keep developing your skills, and keep networking. Whenever you’re asked to do something, make sure you do it well,” says Marcia Diaz. “You’re creating your brand. Whatever happens next, make sure someone will want to pick you to be on their team.”

Diaz speaks to unexpected opportunities in the right moment, making both your work and your ambitions known, leveraging your position and the value in sometimes asking forgiveness rather than permission.

When One Door Closes, Another Opens (Again!)

What at first appears as a stable and steady thirty-year stint of experience in commercial real estate financial services with PGIM Real Estate was actually a little touch-and-go in moments of Diaz’s journey.

Beginning in retail and then obtaining her MBA at UC Berkeley, Diaz joined the Prudential Realty Group, following the track of getting initial experience at a big institution–to “see as many deals as possible, learn the fundamentals, and get some good grounding”–before planning to go onto work at a real estate developer.

Less than a year after starting as a junior loan officer, the market turned and she found herself working on foreclosures: “Pretty quickly, I was put in a totally different position than I thought I was going to be in, and it was so much more adversarial than the sales side. But I tell people it was like medicine. At the time, I didn’t like it, but it was the best learning experience for a new person in real estate–you learn all the things that can go wrong and you really come to understand the loan documents.”

A few years later, Diaz got into the heart of real estate, moving over to an asset management role and working on mega deals in LA and San Francisco. But as Prudential prepared to go public, the strategy included selling off the major assets she’d been working on.

Just as she had chosen a severance option, she received an invitation to join real estate investment banking in Prudential Securities. For three years, she gained experience in capital markets and M&A, though it felt too far removed from real estate to her. That’s when the head office decided to close down the investment banking group, and she received her second severance package.

As she pondered what was next, she received a second unexpected call, again from within the greater company. This time the offer was to head up the re-opening of the LA real estate office. She would be building and hiring her team and working with multifamily agency products. Since accepting, Diaz has remained on the debt side in originations in the LA office.

“It’s a been a very dynamic company with lots of changes and new opportunities – loan originations, dispositions, asset management, investment banking,” summarizes Diaz. “Every time I got comfortable in one of my roles, some new opportunity and challenge came up where I moved to a different role, and that’s kept me here.”

Real Estate Holds a Story


Diaz enjoys how approachable and tangible real estate is when it comes to the often abstract world of finance. She loves the story that is behind each asset: “Every property is so different and every one has a story. Even after thirty years, my favorite thing is still to go to a new market and hear the story from the developer and the owner and why they’re excited about it.”

“These people are such experts. They tell you why this specific corner is better than that corner and why they’ve laid out the development the way they have.”

Beyond the West Coast, she’s been able to explore London, Mexico and other new markets to feed her passion.

Do Your Best Work, But Also Make it Known

“My parents instilled in me that the only thing you can control is yourself and what you do, so make sure whatever you’re doing, you excel in it,” says Diaz, which she remembers applying even to the most meticulous of tasks in her retail days. “Focus on your performance and whatever you are doing, do your very best work and a lot falls into place.”

Diaz accredits her insistence on showing up with her best effort as to why her name was twice spoken for new opportunities in different parts of the organization. At the same time, Diaz learned that doing your best work is only half the equation. What came less naturally for her was self-promotion, as well as being direct and assertive about what she wanted and where she wanted to go. 

“During my career, there have been some people who I felt maybe weren’t as qualified as I was, but made it known what they wanted to do–whether a new responsibility or promotion–and I watched it happen for them,” she notes. “I learned you can’t just wait for things to happen. You’ve got to make them happen. Talk to your boss, raise your hand for opportunities, make sure people know what you’re interested in. Don’t let them just assume you’re happy to stay where you are.”

Diaz feels as though her networking was often by default. While that contributed to her opportunity offers, she could have benefited from doing even more: “Start your networking early on, and be proactive, strategic and disciplined about it. This business is so much about contacts and relationships and how you help each other out and refer business.”

Leverage Being Memorable in the Room

Having been in the organization for three decades, from the days when the boys club was shockingly overt at moments, through a time of greater social maturing, Diaz has often been the only woman at the working social event, meeting table or competitive pitch.

But generally recalling the notion of being around the table with twelve men, all dressed similarly and with similar names, it never escaped Diaz that while she was trying to remember “who was who” amongst them, she herself stood out.

So while it can be very intimidating, and Diaz jokes it would help if she was a golfer, she also has chosen to make standing out as a woman work for her, as opposed to seeing it as inhibiting her.

“When I was marketing to borrowers and brokers, I could be competing with five other guys (lenders) who had been in their office that day, but they’re going to remember Marcia. So I tell junior female team members to take advantage of that, but to remember you also must be clear and compelling in your pitch.”

Speak Truthfully and Directly

Diaz feels she has gained respect and trust as someone who will tell the truth, even when it’s difficult or controversial.

“To be a good leader, you need to be able to cheer your team on with all the good stuff. But to make changes and keep progressing, you also need to be willing to address the challenges and difficult matters,” notes Diaz. “I think people appreciate direct and honest feedback and ‘knowing where they stand.’”

Diaz observes that it’s far kinder to be truthful and direct even in critical feedback and to give someone the opportunity to receive and address it, rather than to avoid that conversation until it’s too late.

Grooming and developing talent has become a bigger aspect of her daily life the more senior she has become and is now the most important part of her position. From watching new hires rise to senior positions over decades with her, to understanding the dreams of university student mentees, it’s what she finds most gratifying in the work.

Ask Forgiveness, Not Permission (Sometimes)

As someone who identifies as a “rule follower,” Diaz has had a few successful, dynamic movers and shakers in her journey that passed on an important message: sometimes you just gotta ask for forgiveness, not permission. While taken to the extreme, it may become reckless, she sees the value in being willing to take some informed risk.

“The notion is that when you know things are right, you gotta go with it, especially in the world of transactions,” says Diaz. “That sticks with me, because I think that sometimes you need to have the confidence to recognize you have enough world experience and just go with it.”

As one of her retail bosses early on taught her, ultimately no one else is as close to your business or can tell you what’s best for it.

With so many unexpected twists and turns in her own journey, Diaz also emphasizes to her mentees that there are many things out of your control, so put your energy into doing your best where you are now.

So much of her professional fulfillment comes from in-person social interaction that Diaz awaits the day she can return to the field and hear more real estate stories directly.

She has already combined her love of tennis and travel by attending both Wimbledon and the US Open and would love to travel to France or Australia next to do the same. She grew up on the West Coast as a Pac-12 girl and loves college football season.

By: Aimee Hansen

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Monica Marquez: Co-Founder, Beyond Barriers

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Monica Marquez“It’s transfer of knowledge, it’s paying it forward, it’s saying ‘here are the unwritten rules that you need to know that not everybody is going to tell you’,” says Monica Marquez. “Why don’t you learn from my mistakes, and then maybe you can get here in half the amount of time that I did?”

As an Equity & Inclusion expert, Monica has previously worked in the cultures of Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, Ernst & Young and Google, with a focus on pioneering efforts to support women to advance through the most tricky parts of the career path.

Advancing the “Frozen Middle”

“I’ve had a natural affinity towards pursuing a career that focuses on diversity, equity and inclusion,” says Marquez. “The whole theme of creating opportunities and a sense of belonging, and helping people to accelerate their success, has always been core to what I loved to do and help organizations do at scale.”

Beyond Barriers takes a campus to C-suite approach: “What happens throughout a woman’s career trajectory that causes so much attrition from the entry level to the top? For more than a decade, over 50% women have been graduating from US universities and colleges, outpacing their male peers. How is it then, that only 8% of women hold C-suite roles in Fortune 500 companies?”

Marquez’s passion has been to understand the systemic barriers at play and how to navigate them to accelerate success: “Companies do a really good job of recruiting women in the early stages, but they don’t do a good job of supporting them and helping them grow and stay, often losing them as they are rising up.”

Despite so much front-end investment in talent, Marquez feels organizations often fail to support women through the “frozen middle” when the challenge of integration of work with new motherhood becomes a huge adjustment for many, and when attrition peaks.

She notes that many women are passionate about coming back until they return to experience being sidelined—so they are both pulled by their new responsibilities and pushed out by the organization. After the second child, the percentile of women opting out or taking a break goes way up.

Marquez has found that often a dance of projected assumptions goes on between both sides of the coin. Women often don’t feel their managers/organizations will be supportive of their boundaries or needs. Organizations often assume what women will want for themselves, or be available for.

“It’s partly the assumptions, stigmas, stereotypes, unconscious biases that managers and leaders have at play, rather than just open communication,” she says. “The conversation needs either the woman being confident and having clarity of what she wants and being able to ask for what she wants, or the leader asking the woman that question and giving her the opportunity to answer for herself.”

Marquez has seen that when the tough conversations actually happen, things like flex schedules and promotion plans can be arranged. It’s after all more efficient to support a woman to stay and keep progressing than to bring in somebody entirely new from scratch.

“Don’t be afraid to say this is this is what I want and don’t be ashamed of your ambition. You shouldn’t be told you either choose your ambition or you choose the family. It doesn’t have to be that way,” advises Marquez, who also points out: “Companies do invest a lot in development with women, but they sometimes have to be strategic and target the high performers. If you were to get to these women a lot earlier, you would have more mid-career women make it through to the top.”

Pioneering the Returnship® Program

Perhaps Marquez’s proudest accomplishment is the Returnship® Program she began back at Goldman Sachs over a decade ago, to help companies retain experienced women and to help women gently reintegrate back into work after maternity leave.

“Back then, there was a significant stigma if you left the workforce and tried to come back in. The gap was a huge mark on your resume, and usually employers would overlook you,” she notes. “There’s a hidden talent pool of women that companies are losing out on because you have this traditional bias against the resume gap. And we started thinking: how do companies hire in the first place?”

Marquez and her team adapted the internship experience and introduced the Returnship® program in financial services at Goldman Sachs. Across a 10-12 week stint, women came back into an office, usually taking on one focused, substantial project in a team who held an open position. Women were able to reacclimatize through a first dip back into work mode and teams received experienced help on standing projects. If the practical trial showed a mutual fit, full-time placement would result and regardless, both parties benefitted.

“In our first few pilots, we had a placement rate in the 90th percentile, and the majority of the 10% who didn’t get placed were women who chose to stay out, after realizing that they weren’t ready for full-time work,” says Marquez. “It’s the fulfillment of helping people gain opportunity when the doors are all closing that’s been my guiding passion.”

Being Latina in Corporate America

Marquez notes that Latina women face stereotypes based upon gender and culture: such as the loud Latina, the overly emotional Latina or the family-first domestic Latina mother.

She’s experienced herself that being a “first generation corporate” can be very isolating, allowing space for imposter syndrome and self-doubt, often because Latina women are the “only” Latina around in the context and because they often do have different influences and voices at home, sometimes intergenerational, due to the cultural loyalty to family.

Some cultural influences can be resourceful to help Latina women thrive and others can be limiting.

While women of color were less prevalent in the Returnship® program, the team found ironically (vs. stereotypes) that Latina women were less likely to have opted out of the workplace for home responsibilities than their white peers, precisely because they had a strong Latino family structure and childcare support within their extended family.

“The cultural norm of the tight-knit Latino family unit, where they maintain a sense of a village to raise a family, helped some women stay employed opposed to having to opt out,” notes Marquez.

On the other hand: “We come from various Latino cultures where work ethic is a really big deal: put your head down, work really hard,” says Marquez. “However, you learn quickly that in the corporate world, you’re going to get overlooked if you just keep your head down and work hard. You have to learn self-promotion and have the flexibility to go against the grain of what you’ve always been taught.”

And so, Marquez has created employee resource groups to help with opportunity/cultural gaps such as coaching soft-skills and self-promotion among first generation college or corporate individuals.

Acculturate, not Assimilate

Having always been fascinated with cultural differences and their influences on decision-making, Marquez impresses upon Latina women that “there’s a fine line between assimilation and acculturation”.

“You have to be very careful when you go into an organization that is predominantly white male cisgender-led that you don’t assimilate too much, to where you’re contorting yourself into a pretzel in order to belong. You want to keep some authenticity,” says Marquez. “I usually tell people that you have to acculturate and embrace every organization you belong to. They each have their unique culture and define success in a different way. You have to look at every organization like its own country that you visit every day.”

She suggests getting underneath what characteristics are driving success in your organization and then emulating those characteristics by adopting strategies that are right for you within the organizational “cultural” context, without compromising your own truthfulness.

For example, colleagues may go to the local pub to network, but it’s narrow-minded to think you have to stay two hours after work as the requirement to be successful. The value is developing relationships, and you can figure out a way to develop more depth to informal connections through breakfast and lunch invitations during work hours.

“It’s figuring out where you can set your own boundaries. You acculturate opposed to assimilate, and you challenge them on the ways it happens,” she advises. “The important thing is the relationship building. It’s not the happy hour.”

“Don’t assimilate and lose who you are. Instead, acculturate and hold onto those core values of your culture, because that also enriches the organization,” she notes. “The representation of diverse cultures brings about an organic diversity of thought that is needed to create bigger and better solutions for organizations.”

Less Certainty, More In-The-Moment Agility

“Women have a tendency to be very certainty driven, and they end up not taking as many risks and opportunities. It’s like that quote ‘doubt kills more dreams than failure ever will’,” says Marquez. “Women need to be much more open to taking the opportunity and embracing just-in-time learning, so they don’t rob themselves before they try.”

Marquez feels women disadvantage themselves by feeling they will be safe only if they already know everything. Whereas men’s willingness to put their name in the hat, dive in and then figure it out means they advance more quickly.

She recommends women weigh the risk and reward, and if they can live with the downside, just go for it: “Women will second guess and short-change themselves, but we are remarkable and extremely resourceful. You have to look at these opportunities and tell yourself, ‘I only check two boxes out of ten, but I’m going to put my name in the hat because this is my North Star. This is where I want to go’d.”

Noting that the average shelf life for a new skillset is now eighteen months, Marquez feels women should tap more into their natural agility to change and juggle, and embrace more just-in-time learning.

For her, a key component of accelerating gender equity is simply facilitating the transfer of knowledge: “If I knew then what I know now, I would have gotten here so much quicker and probably in half the time that it took me to become a senior leader,” reflects Marquez, who is doing all she can to bring others up behind her.

To learn more about how Monica and her company (Beyond Barriers helps organizations retain and develop female leaders), visit www.iambeyondbarriers.com.

By: Aimee Hansen

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