Tag Archive for: PGIM

Marcella Sivilotti: Chief Strategy Officer, PGIM

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Marcella Sivilotti“Somewhere along the way of observing women progress in their careers, I realized that no one ever got very far if they cared too much about: What do others think? How did I come across? Was I likeable? And so on,” says Marcella Sivilotti. “You get to a certain place because you channeled that energy not on worrying about whether people like you or your answer, but on asking how do I get the job at hand done?”

Structuring Strategic Issues

Having studied industrial engineering in Rome, Marcella mastered the ability to approach any practical problem–including business problems–with an analytical lens: How do you maximize profit? What is the shortest path? The ability to streamline problems and structure solutions led her to management consulting with McKinsey. She transferred to the US with the firm to obtain an MBA from Columbia. What began as a two-year stint has led to almost 15 years in the US, and a career and family now firmly established in New York.

In 2014, ready to shift from consulting to working to implement change within companies, Marcella joined PGIM, the $1.2 trillion asset management arm of Prudential Financial. Now she leads a small but high-impact team who advises senior management on the strategic direction and priorities of the business, that also strongly factor in the human element of every equation.

“As an advisor, you look at the data and the range of strategic options. But, there’s also: Where is this person coming from as they assess this decision? What makes them click? What are their concerns, spoken or unspoken?” she says. “So there’s a lot of psychology involved when you’re on the other side.”

Marcella is animated by the constant variety her role offers: “I’ve been at the company for over eight years, and every day there’s some new aspect of the business I have not looked into and a new problem to solve.” She loves applying the same analytic framework to new kinds of problems – identifying the variables, finding possible solutions and assessing the best path forward in partnership with the senior business leaders she advises.

Coming from consulting, Marcella has been inspired to find that the PGIM culture is not about making the decision that is going to look good in front of your boss, but rather about managing the business with a long-term mindset. She points out that investment management is all about generating returns in a very measurable way. And it’s exactly that accountability that necessitates honest discussions and a willingness to engage in fruitful debate and open exchanges of ideas and views with passion and respect, which she loves. She enjoys working with smart and motivated people and says, “People here care about doing the right thing by the business.”

Giving and Receiving the Feedback We Need to Grow

Marcella is animated by leading and shaping a team. She enjoys the human element of influencing behavior: “It’s less about what looks good in a PowerPoint deck and more about how to make things happen in the complex, messy real world. Importantly, that requires establishing trust, and modulating between ‘when do I need to be nice and accommodating?’ versus ‘when do I need to give the gift of direct and honest feedback?’”

Marcella seeks to strike that delicate balance both in leading her team and in her advising role. In leading a team: “There is a balance between creating a caring and ‘fail safe’ team environment (where it’s okay not to be perfect and bring what you’re good at and what you’re not good and it’s understood that everybody has both aspects) and also having a focus on giving clear feedback,” she discerns. “Everybody loves to be told they are great, but that’s not always conducive to growth. So how do you make sure people get the tough message when it’s warranted, without it coming across as failure but rather as an opportunity and source of growth?”

In her advisory role: “When I advise people, if I just tell them what they want to be told, I am useless. Because that’s not good advice,” she notes.

She herself has learned to better embrace both giving and receiving tough feedback and position it not as a deficit but as a developmental edge.

Take Your Attention Away from What Others Think

At the core of her own success is two things. The first is being a logical and structured thinker–always beginning with ‘what do we know’ and ‘what do we not know?’ The second is being able to relate to people, to read them and also not shy away from being candid as a leader.

When it comes to fulfilling potential, Marcella points out that if you listen to the stories of either men or women in leadership, they stopped preoccupying themselves with what other people were thinking or how they came across, and instead liberated themselves to focus on how to achieve their visions. And if there’s one thing she could have known sooner, it would be that.

She also picked up the value of conviction and resilience. “If you’re told ‘no’ once, just have another go. No one ever got far because they got pessimistic the first time they failed. As the saying goes, it’s about how many times you get back up.”

From university onwards, Marcella has been used to being the one, or one of the few, women in the room. Against that backdrop, she has focused on what she wants to achieve, avoided getting caught up in the politics, and shown up as candid and outspoken with conscious disregard for whatever societal expectations may be at play.

Passion is Showing Up and Growing

As a leader, Marcella hopes to infuse her team with a good measure of passion, involvement and caring about the outcomes they create together.

“You hear lately about ‘quiet quitting’ and how people come to work because they want to get a paycheck, but they’re tuned out. I can’t imagine that, because if that ever happened to me, I’d rather just quit,” she says. “When it comes to solving problems, I like the fact that I do feel a measure of responsibility for the outcome and the quality of work we put in. I’m lucky to have been able to build and be supported by a team that shares that same spirit.”

The other thing she likes to convey to her team is to not be too serious and to always keep some perspective around the work. In supporting a growth culture, Marcella feels it’s so important that people realize that it is okay to fail.

“There is that saying, ‘you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take.’ If the aim is to be perfect and never make the wrong decision, by definition there’s an element of faking or over-conservatism,” she says, “because just to ensure you don’t ever make the wrong move, you’re never going to make a move. But investment professionals make decisions for a living and no one will ever be right 100% of the time. That comes with the job.”

Being A Mom Has Only Added to Her Game

In the past three years, Marcella has become a mom and feels bringing up her two kids has strengthened her leadership.

“Becoming a parent makes you so resilient. It’s a great exercise in messing up 50 times a day. Before having children, I may have ruminated on how a meeting didn’t go well,” she says. “Now, I can put it in the context of the 50 others ways I was challenged today. I don’t have time to get stuck on it.”

It has also made her more efficient and laser-focused on the most important aspects of any problem, because she still wants to achieve everything with high quality, but must make it happen in more limited hours. She feels the direct and challenging experience of balancing personal and work life as a parent has also given her more compassion and empathy for others.

“You realize that everybody may have something they’re trying to cope with – whether it’s parenting, caring for someone who is unwell, or a breakup,” she says. “So it’s about being more attuned. I may not know what it is you are dealing with, but I’m going to be empathetic and an ally.”

Time and again, the human element weighs strongly in the equation.

By Aimee Hansen

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Amber Hairston: Agency Underwriter, PGIM Real Estate

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Amber Hairston“For this moment, while employers are asking you to bring yourself to work, do it. Do it now. Do it today,” says Amber Hairston. “The hope is that this is a movement, not a moment. But time is of the essence, so do it. It will pay dividends.”

In honor of National Coming Out Day on October 11th, we share Hairston’s experience on freeing yourself into authenticity. 

Seeing the Hurdles Before They Come

Graduating during the global financial crisis and determined to exit the social confines of her rural Virginia hometown, Hairston took a position in marketing and communications. But “in typical Millennial fashion,” she made a network connection on Twitter who saw her as suited to commercial real estate finance and directed her towards an opportunity. In 2015, she then moved to PGIM, where she ascended across four positions within six years.

“I was redirected to the path that was intended for me,” reflects Hairston, who had planned to study business before diverting towards communications. “I think of myself now as a different kind of storyteller.”

As an underwriter, Hairston pitches deals to loan approvers after careful assessment of a property, who’s operating it, the market, and other financial risks. Attributing her work ethic to her parents, Hairston prides herself on attention to detail: “I’m very thoughtful in assessing what the hurdles are. I don’t always like to call them ‘risks’ necessarily. I call them ‘hurdles’—these are the hurdles, and this is how we can and will clear them.”

The volatility in the domestic and global economy, and the impact on the real estate investment marketplace, has definitely provided challenges to step into—and Hairston finds that exhilarating. While she won’t speak the most in a meeting room, when she does, she has reflected and has something powerful to say.

Time management and foresight have been her boons. “There’s nothing that I haven’t thought about when I’m underwriting a deal. There’s nothing that I encounter that I haven’t at least entertained as a possible hurdle. I’m never caught flat-footed or surprised.”

“Dropping the Weight Vest” To Rise in Authenticity

Reflecting on her desire to stretch beyond home as a teenager, she says, “It was a very black and white space in a literal and figurative sense. There wasn’t a lot of space for a queer woman of color in the town that I came from, and I knew that I could not grow in the ways that I needed to grow in that environment,” says Hairston. “D.C. just made a lot more sense, and it was my dream city in the United States.”

But while having left the confines of her small town, Hairston in some ways brought the burden of constraints within her to D.C.—until the pandemic.

“I kept the queer part of myself under wraps for so long. I tried to be something else and it was exhausting. And it’s not because of PGIM – this is the box that I grew up in, a limited view of what a woman can and should be, what they should look like,” says Hairston. “But the pandemic changed everything. We were at home and there was nobody to see me. There was only the work. It felt like I had been walking around with a ‘weight vest’ for years.”

Hairston recalls a moment when she was overwhelmed with work while colleagues were away and she needed all of herself: “I think that was the moment that everything changed because I didn’t have a choice. I had to take off the vest at that moment to power through.”

She continues, “Then as we started to return to the office in late 2021, I just told myself I wasn’t putting it back on. I decided I was done with it.”

“In a virtual setting and with all the focus on diversity, equity and inclusion, I was ready to bring the breadth and depth to my experience to bear as a queer woman of color.”

That choice has impacted her relationships across the organization and the industry: “My relationships wouldn’t be as meaningful personally or impactful professionally had I not brought everything to the table.”

And it’s impacted her performance and visibility: “I’ve never been a stronger performer. I draw so much power from all the things that make me different. I used to view it as a disadvantage, but it’s so essential to how I’m able to show up, how effective and efficient I am, and the impact that I’m able to make. I draw from everything, and to have not done that for so many years was a detriment to my performance.”

Reflecting overall, she says, “It sounds sad this box that I, in part, put myself into, the unnecessary weight that I carried for so long, but the upside is maybe I can run faster and jump higher than I ever thought I could.”

Evolving Her Work Relationships From Within

As Hairston has become more comfortable in taking up space in a way that is authentic to herself, she’s feels she’s allowed others to do the same.

“Historically, I’ve been really hard on people. I could be pretty demanding and have really high expectations,” reflects Hairston. “I’m not sure that’s changed, but with the pandemic and everything, the way that I approach it has changed. I’ve had to take it easier on myself and that’s translated to other people.“

Reflecting deeper, she shares, “My harshness was a reflection of how I was talking to myself. Now that I’ve reined in my own self talk, I’m more patient, compassionate and thoughtful in how I get the best out of others, because that’s ultimately what I want.”

Empowering Others Beyond Yourself

Hairston feels blessed by an abundance of mentors and sponsors who had her best interests at heart, even when it meant losing her: “I think a lot of people see those who support them, whether consciously or unconsciously, as tools for their own growth and advancement and production. But there have been many people, at many turns, who let me go even when it was going to make things uncomfortable for them. They wanted to see me rise.”

She wishes to take that with her, “There are people in this organization, and across the industry, who have altered the trajectory of my career by presenting me with an opportunity or a challenge. That’s the type of impact that I want to have,” she says.

“Part of the responsibility of leadership, whether you’re the CEO or have one direct report, is to develop people and I hope I never lose sight of that.” It’s also important to her to be a steady presence that others can call on when they need anything.

Hairston is inspired by leaders who embody vulnerability and transparency. “They have the confidence to give you the latitude for mistakes and really allow you to grow,” she says. That latitude has looked like saying her name in rooms she can’t be in and risking putting their name behind hers while advancing her into new challenges.

She traveled broadly before the pandemic – from Costa Rica, Dubai, and Cape Town to London and Zurich. While more grounded during recent times, she’s explored cultures through food and suspects she’s read about 35 books in the last year and a half.

A sci-fi fantasy and Harry Potter fan, she enjoys V.E. Schwab and sometimes reads young adult fiction to appreciate the diversity of representation that was absent when she was growing up. Though never a “dog person,” she was lovingly coerced into puppy parenting. She and her partner have a seven-month-old Bichon Frise named Artemis.

By Aimee Hansen

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Rupal Shah: Principal, PGIM Fixed Income

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Rupal ShahRupal Shah describes her journey, which includes taking uncomfortable (but intentional) leaps in her career, finding her voice, staying challenged, humble and authentic, and dedicating her time to the service of others.

“Create the greatest, grandest vision possible for your life and career because you become what you believe.”

Big Leaps to Follow Her Own Compass

Shah’s parents immigrated to the U.S. from India with master’s degrees and not much else. Her childhood is defined by watching and learning from their hard work and sacrifice. “My parents’ determination and perseverance are in my DNA. They each worked multiple jobs and navigated innumerous obstacles as foreigners in a new country. They had a vision of a life they wanted to give our family and they manifested that vision.”

She lives by the lessons that her parents taught her with their actions. Similarly, Shah paved her own career path, learned from her mistakes and was able to navigate the challenges she faced along the way on her own. “Create the greatest, grandest vision possible for your life and career because you become what you believe.”

Shah recounts, “Each step of my career taught me meaningful characteristics about myself and helped me make my next leap.” Shah spent some of her earlier years in back-office roles within Goldman Sachs, ultimately transitioning to an analytical role within the sales and trading division. Simultaneously, she was getting her MBA part-time at New York University’s Stern School of Business. Despite the hectic schedule, she learned the importance of networking with people around the firm to learn about their roles. It was through these conversations that she was able to determine where she wanted to lead her career path.

“The time spent networking paid dividends and those relationships are my currency,” she says. Post graduate school, after 32 interviews and various naysayers, Shah was given an opportunity to cover strategic relationships within Goldman Sachs’ Asset Management Division, despite various senior professionals deterring her from applying for the opportunity.

“The firm told me they were taking a leap of faith on me. As appreciative as I was of the opportunity, I felt like the underdog. If nothing else, this motivated me to work harder to succeed. There were many times during my career where I was told I couldn’t, or I shouldn’t, or I wasn’t included. I would tell myself that I do not need a seat at that table, I will just build my own. I realized I needed to trust my instinct, and rather than any firm taking a leap of faith on me, I would take leap of faith on myself.”

“Your career is your own. Make sure you’re the one driving it.”

As an Indian American woman in fixed income, Shah has had to reach beyond her comfort zone and override both self-doubt and conditioning, to find her voice. While the context can be intimidating, she realized she had to stop putting up extra hurdles for herself and trust her instincts.

“In my culture, we were raised to not challenge or question anything. We were taught that respect was blindly listening to your elders. But I saw time and time again how this learned behavior would be a detriment to my career,” says Shah.

“In my first few roles, I was scared to ask questions or challenge others. I remember having hard days and I would not speak up when there was something that needed to be said. These situations continued over the years, and I learned that what I had to offer was valuable. I forced myself to develop a voice and really stick to what I believe in and be authentic in that. More than ever, I know my voice matters. It’s been a long path to get here but I see the rewards of taking a view and sticking to it with certainty.”

When thinking back on the journey, she’d encourage her younger self to develop that confidence sooner. “The young women we interview today are so confident and impressive, and I love seeing that.”

Staying Challenged

Shah’s mantra is “if you’re not challenged, you’re not growing.” She continuously asks herself if she feels comfortable in roles. If the answer is yes, she knows she is not evolving. “Comfort becomes shackles to growth. I always want to step so far out of my comfort zone that I forget how to get back.”

Recently, Shah was given the opportunity to build the third-party insurance business for PGIM Fixed Income. Shah has had to push herself out of her comfort zone and trust the strength and skills she has developed over the years. “It’s rewarding to have been able to forge a path that truly will be successful for our firm. I’m incredibly excited to strategically build something new. I’ve been blessed with great opportunities to build and create throughout my career, but this is certainly a new frontier. Thinking of new ideas, strategies, products, building a new team and learning different concepts is challenging and exhilarating.”

“It is important to stay humble and authentic to yourself to be a strong leader.”

Since Shah joined PGIM Fixed Income, she has been involved in recruiting, hiring, and retaining talent. “Our people are our biggest asset. Hiring, training, and nurturing our talent is our greatest responsibility. When people come to work, they should love being here. I want people not only to feel motivated about their work product but also by the work environment,” says Shah. “I’m a huge believer that each person is treated like an individual and should feel empowered. I really nurture my relationships, and that’s a huge part of my leadership.”

“I’ve worked for some truly inspirational people that have shown me the type of leader I want to be. I picked traits along the way and found the style that I felt truly represented the person I am. I lead with kindness and respect, I am the first one to admit when I am wrong, and I embrace that we are all continuously evolving.” Being an authentic leader helps garner mutual respect amongst the team and her leadership is what Shah deems to be her greatest success.

The Most Rewarding Work

As a mother of two, Shah navigates a thriving career, being a fully present mother, running marathons and co-running a charity. Shah says, “It certainly is not easy, but if it’s not hard, it’s not worth it.”

Orphan Life Foundation is the charity Shah co-leads. Her contribution involves supporting orphaned children in India and Burkina Faso from providing basic human needs such as food, clothing, bedding, etc to larger projects such as installing water filtration systems and providing bikes as transport to school.

As a child, Shah’s parents took her family to India every two years. They would visit an orphanage near her father’s hometown and contribute to support the children. The trips were so much more than visiting family.

“It kept me close to my roots, truly humbled me and filled me with gratitude for the opportunities I would have ahead. Those trips really define who I am today,” Shah says. Her charity work continues this tradition, including visits to India.

Shah is currently working on setting up a mentor program between the orphanage in Burkina Faso and a local school in Newark that she has spent time with over the years. She wishes to gift her own children the relative perspective of gratitude for the life they have, the hard work and effort it takes to succeed, and awareness of helping others who were not born into the same.

“This is what I do for me,” says Shah. “I love my career, my family, and the impact I can make. It’s all so exhilarating, but nothing really rewards like this.”

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Jessica Jones: Managing Director, Head of Asia, PGIM Investments

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Jessica Jones“There are not many people that are willing to take on that challenge of being in a new role and different geography,” reflects Jessica Jones. “I was very open to this change, and put myself forward early in my career. I made sure that my managers knew, that while focused on my current role, this is something that I would be interested in, if the right time came.”

Working in Asia

Born in the UK and raised in South Africa, Jones became comfortable with change, adapting, and being the new person in an environment from an early age.

Jones worked for Goldman Sachs for 17 years, where she headed diversified businesses across Europe, Australia and ultimately in Asia. She took a Hong Kong-based opportunity with PGIM, a top-10 global investment manager after completing her second maternity leave last September.

“I have had a very rewarding and dynamic career with another exciting chapter ahead. Because I’ve had such supportive managers and sponsors, I’ve had fantastic opportunities to step up, and have had the privilege of covering a number of regions and countries from a very early moment,” she says.

After visiting Hong Kong during her gap year, Jones became fascinated with Asia and kept her eye on opportunities in the region. She eventually made the leap ten years ago, taking a Head of Asia-Pacific role based in Australia first, before moving to Hong Kong. As the APAC asset and wealth management industry continues to grow exponentially, driven largely by China, the number of high-net worth clients has grown, and global private banks have sought to expand their footprint–making it an exciting region to work in.

She’s had the privilege of watching her client counterparts move around too: “It’s been incredible to develop these long partnerships with clients who are also moving in their roles all the time. It has helped me to understand the global businesses that our clients are in, so it’s fantastic perspective.”

Immersing in a Culture Through Passion

Accustomed to being the ‘outsider’ who doesn’t speak the local language, and often the only woman in a room, Jones is passionate about getting to know a new region and has found her clients enjoy the different perspectives she can bring to the table.

“I am building teams who are local experts in their regions, who are Cantonese- or Mandarin-speaking in Hong Kong, and who can get much closer than I ever will to the relationship managers or investment counselors,” she says, “They bring the local perspective and the ability to converse and steer me in the right direction. That’s a fascinating aspect of my role–to adapt and enjoy the cultural differences.”

Located in one of the most restrictive quarantine regimes over the last two and a half years, and having yet to meet her PGIM team or clients in an office, Jones still has a feeling of “going through it together.” In Hong Kong, there’s been a rebirth of popularity around the traditional 19th century Chinese tile-based strategy game named Mahjong–involving 144 tiles placed on the table and four players. Having begun playing regularly during semi-lockdown and mostly with women, she’s a self-confessed enthusiast, and highlights language happens in many ways.

“You put these tiles out, shuffle them, and basically try to create order out of the chaos,” she says. “It’s been really fun, and with everything closed, that’s been our chance to network and support each other. It has become a bonding opportunity and stress reliever.”

Jones’ passion for the culture has helped her open new doors and develop great relationships. “The game is about luck and skill, but also has become a way of honing in on my local cultural skills. My clients are amazed I know how to play, although I still have so much to learn. I can’t speak the language, but I can speak the language of Mahjong,” she says.

Jones is emphatic about becoming a part of the region: “I have my residency and both my children were born here, so I’m very much rooted here. This is home for me, and I’m committed to Asia, and so my clients tell me they have adopted me as a local.”

Raise Your Hand and Stretch Your Limbs

Jones attributes her career success both to raising her hand early to say she was open to new opportunities, and a willingness to take on stretch roles as they came up.

“Don’t just assume that people know what you want. You need to make sure that your managers and your stakeholders know that you are interested in other opportunities,” she says. “Don’t be scared to let them know. It’s not like you’re going to be fired because you’re driven and want to move and grow.”

For anyone else who feels the call to get out of their comfort zone, she emphasizes you don’t need to have been there before or know the language to thrive: “If you have the right attitude, being outside of your comfort zone makes you stronger and stretches your mind, and it makes you learn at a very fast pace.”

As the years have accumulated, Jones’s steady base is her product and business acumen, with new regions and new types of wealth management presenting opportunities to stretch. Learning on the job has taught her a lot about herself and how she adapts.

Being brave and taking risks are two traits she feels have supported her journey: “It’s always tempting to stay in the safest option, because you’re scared of making a mistake or damaging your professional reputation. But being open to trying new strategies, new areas, new growth and new innovation are a great way to progress your career. Risk needs to be calculated, but take those risks early.”

She recommends building a strong network from the beginning, and is amazed how much the relationships she has built over two decades help her to stay in touch with lessons, inspiration, opportunities and innovation from different regions.

You Cannot Communicate Enough

“My advice to anyone going into a new leadership role is you can’t communicate enough. There is no such thing as over-communication,” says Jones. “Good communication helps us be connected, engaged and understanding where we are all trying to go.”

As she’s become more senior, Jones has had to get even better at communication.

“As a leader, you need to constantly be communicating your vision–the goals, the purpose of the team, the roles that everyone has and responsibilities. You need to keep communicating the progress that’s being made, within your team but also to stakeholders,” says Jones. “Especially being so far from headquarters, you really need to communicate and advocate for your team, and be the PR agent for your team, your business and the opportunities in the region.”

She’s learned the importance of tailoring your approach: “There’s different communication for different people and learning styles, so I need to keep thinking about how my messages may be coming across. Do I need to adapt the way I communicate to my team and to different stakeholders? Some people want a lot more analytical data, others want the big picture strategy, and also there’s the consideration of different cultures and perspectives–all influence how someone wants to be updated.”

People Want to Work With Others They Like

Blessed with wonderful mentors who championed her growth and her dreams, one of the best pieces of advice Jones has received along the way is that people want to do business with people they like and enjoy working with–and that translates to all regions and parts of life.

“We’re all very busy, so people want to work with people they feel they have a good connection with,” she says, “You want to develop relationships where you become their best business friend or partner, and where you also enable your clients to look good in their role by bringing the best investment advice, research and ideas. I advise my team that we cannot control the investment products or the market, but we can control the relationship we are building with our key partners in the region. Every opportunity you have, make sure to develop a great relationship with impact, and over time that builds a great partnership.”

She also advises women to leverage being the memorable person in the room or the social event or the pitch: “Rather than being intimidated, use it to your advantage because you don’t realize that you are going to be memorable. People are perhaps not going to remember all twelve guys around the table, but they’re going to remember you, so remember you bring a different perspective.”

Above all, she iterates the importance of enjoying what you do, and feeling a sense of purpose and passion.

“For me, living and working in these different cultural environments has broadened my horizons, perspective and experience, personally and professionally, and I feel I have a dream job,” she says. “I get to work and live and travel in such an exciting region of the world and call it my home and it still fascinates me every day.”

Stand Where You Are

If there’s anything Jones has discovered in being unable to leave Hong Kong in the past two and a half years, it’s to take advantage of the place you are living. Before this time, she mostly traveled off to another country for a spectacular beach or to see family or friends, and realizes now she had not been as present in the moment and enjoying where she lives.

Since embracing “staying put,” Jones and her family have been appreciating incredible hiking trails and island beaches and other parts of the surrounding area, right on her doorstep, that she never knew existed.

“No matter where you are in the world,” she says, “it helps to realize how lucky you are, and to take full advantage of the present and the place that you are in to get more inspiration.”

By Aimee Hansen

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Pamela Peace: Principal & North America Client Management, PGIM Fixed Income

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Pamela Peace“The world is different now and leadership looks different,” says Pamela Peace, “Today anyone at any level should be afforded a trusted space to have a dialogue with their manager about the support needed to be successful.”

Peace talks about the values she holds dear, lessons learned throughout her career and how she has developed as a leader in ways that feel true to her goals, ambitions, and most importantly authentic to who she is as a person.

As a Senior Client Manager for PGIM Fixed Income, Pamela recently expanded her role as a leader within the organization, taking on responsibilities as lead manager for PGIM Fixed Income’s North America Client Management team: a role which she notes is intentionally focused on creating valuable partnerships for clients and opportunities for teammates in Fixed Income to deliver excellence in client relations.

Pamela reflects on driving change and rising above dissenting voices. “It is vital to perform well at our core duties to be viewed as credible and effective. What makes an individual a true leader? One who motivates and inspires others to perform well at their core duties, has the courage to push for change, and holds the unique ability to cultivate diverse perspectives.”

Her perspectives as Co-Chair of PGIM Fixed Income’s Culture Council highlight her commitment to amplify the organization’s cultural values.

Values She Holds Dear: Diversity of Perspectives

Having worked in fixed income and asset management for over twenty-five years, and with PGIM Fixed Income for the past seven years serving international clients in several regions of the world, Peace thrives on interacting with a range of people and cultures, from language to food. Even more, she loves experiencing the diversity of perspectives that come forth, and she learns broadly from every interaction in her job.

“We are a global organization. When we think about different investment strategies, we must consider every aspect of the world. We must take in various inputs – we must look at the world holistically, make decisions based on our analysis, clients’ expectations, what the markets are doing, geopolitical climate, regulatory, etc. These are just a few of many inputs that go into framing our decisions,” she reflects. “As a Client Manager, for a global asset management firm, I bring a wider awareness into everything I do. I believe it is core to my job and how I live in a global society.”

Peace is motivated by watching the people she leads develop uniquely in their skillsets and the legacy her commitment to talent will leave. “I’m so excited to see how the PGIM Fixed Income North America client managers, which consist of different generations, experiences, and cultures, are going to come together to bring forward new ideas for client engagement,” she says. “Our team embraces the view, ‘we can do hard things for our clients’, and if we believe we can do hard things together, that means we’re all thinking and bringing in ideas, and that’s going to be an exciting adventure.”

Lessons Learned: The Values of Humility, Constant Learning and Service

On advice for those developing their talents, she is open about her own path of development, “Trust me, I have made a lot of mistakes where I have had to say, that was not a good decision. Now, how can I actually take that and learn from it?” says Peace. “Humility allows me to understand where I am in my learning journey and acquiring more knowledge has been something I’ve had to own and develop personally.”

In her very first job at a naval base, she worked under an educator, who was a computer scientist, who imparted upon Peace that she could learn anything once you accept your ability to learn it. That woman, she noted, looked like her. Long before that, her mother, who raised eight children spanning twenty-two years as a single mom after becoming widowed, showed her the merits of hard work.

Combining those influences, Peace is a self-confessed constant learner who takes night courses to stay abreast on new topics in management and leadership. She’s presently taking courses to continue to improve on being an effective leader, as well as pondering the EMBA journey. Early on in her career, she learned there was value to admitting what you don’t know and being receptive to educational opportunities was essential – and that has stayed with her.

“I think vulnerability was important to getting me to this level in my career at PGIM, “she notes. “Also, having grace, humility, determination, and the curiosity to learn at any point in life are key attributes everyone should channel.”

She would add that being in service of others is a core value that has carried her through work and life: “My job is to serve others, and I wake each day reminding myself of that fact. In my job it is – PGIM’s clients first, the people working alongside me and those that I’m responsible for.”

In her personal time, she volunteers with aged people in underserviced areas and learns deep lessons from the elders she serves.

Lessons Learned: Leading as a Partner in Growth

A few years back, Peace had the experience of leading the London team and realized a lot about adjusting her communication and leadership style. Through that experience, she recognized the value of “meeting individuals where they are” to take them where you see they can go. This required adjusting her approach as a leader. When it comes to supporting her team now, Peace seeks to collaborate with those she leads on their development goals.

“The discussions I have with the individuals that work with me directly are very much: I am your advocate. I am your support. Let’s talk about what you need and where I think you need to grow. Then we’ll work together,” she says. “It’s an intellectual dialogue about development and being a partner and advocate in the space. It’s more of a leadership of equals as opposed to that of a hierarchy. Let’s come along as a partnership, and we’ll both get there and grow together.”

Every year in the annual reviews, Peace asks her direct reports to tell her one thing they want to learn or develop during that year, and she helps make that happen.

“They are accountable and feel as though they have ownership of their careers and development,” says Peace. “I’m there as a guide, support, and bumper when needed. That’s a valuable leadership skill that has worked for me.”

Not only does she see her own role as being supportive, but at this stage in her journey, Peace sees it as important to communicate to her own bosses what support she is going to need from them to be successful. Having the direct conversation cemented their willingness to commit that support.

“It’s important to be able to trust and communicate to your leaders: here’s what I need from you and what I need you to help me with,” she says. “That has made the difference for me in my career. And that is not wisdom that one must wait until they are well into their careers to acquire anymore. Remember, what I said at the outset of this interview, the world is different now, and leadership looks different.”

Both parties must agree and hold each other accountable but creating the space to have the conversation matters: “I know, it is a hard thing for some people to understand and accept – I must trust you enough to say, here’s what I’m looking for and here’s what I need. As managers, we must work to create the space for trust, and be ready to receive and act on the needs request.”

Developing as a Leader: Promoting Inclusion and Inspiring Women

Peace wants her team members to feel she brings positivity, openness, inclusivity, and a space of trust, where they can bring their best talents forward.

Inviting inclusion daily might mean giving people, who do not always get the opportunity to speak up on a call, a direct invitation to share their opinion or to lead a discussion. It is also being interested in her team as individuals outside of work. As Co-Chair of the PGIM Fixed Income Culture Council, she’s responsible for executing the values of the organization and creating a safe and inclusive environment built on collegiality, trust, and an unwavering commitment to clients among other positive attributes.

“Part of my responsibility, as a Co-Chair, is to model those values,” says Peace, “which includes bringing together our differences. Valuing people with different backgrounds and different skills to create diversity of thought to execute our mission, which often involves making a lot of subtle connections.”

Going back to her early career before PGIM, Peace lived the experiences, as a black woman, of being the “background individual,” there but not getting the opportunities, not receiving the speaking role, being trivialized. “Having had these experiences, I can say to young women who are coming into their careers, including my own daughter, you don’t have to take it. You do not have to shrink to the biases or comments that make you feel less than – change the norm and the direction of conversation,” she states. “Challenge the behavior appropriately – Ask the question, what does that really mean? Express when you’re offended and why, be prepared to have the conversation, receive the apology and extend grace if appropriate.”

She notes that she usually gives the benefit of the doubt and in most cases, believes there is value in having the hard conversations, because those questions often expose blind spots and lead to achieving a wider, more compassionate understanding of other’s lived experiences.

Developing as a Leader: Embracing Who You Are as a Person and Professional

Taking up distance running after age 40, Peace has completed four marathons and several half-marathons, and considers running outdoors to be spiritual.

Growing up in the middle of eight children gave her early life lessons in responsibility, navigating different personalities, taking care of each other, collaborating and valuing family – including her husband, adult son, and daughter.

She’s animated by new food, great wine with friends, the house she and her husband are remodeling, and she loves to dance. Peace recently cherished a holiday moment of karaoke and dancing with her daughter for the first time since her daughter was a child: “She is definitely smarter and has more rhythm, and that’s okay with me.”

It’s Pamela Peace’s lived experiences both inside and outside of work that define her as a leader and more precisely as someone who motivates and inspires those around her each day in service of PGIM’s clients.

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Mariah Turner: Associate, PGIM Private Capital

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Mariah Turner“If it’s always the loudest voiced people who are taking up space, some of the more insightful opinions get lost,” says Mariah Turner. “I like to think that I’m someone that tries to champion the softer voices in the room.”

Turner speaks to showing up in a room and the community, as both a team player and a leader who amplifies the voices around her.

Finding Balance Within Finance

Having grown up with a father in finance, an economics degree from Harvard University, and a couple of consultative internships under her belt, Turner sought a position in investment management right out of college. More than three years ago, after a year and a half at Allstate, she joined PGIM Private Capital (PPC) and transferred from Chicago to the London office last year.

Initially drawn to sociology out of a fascination for how and why people think and behave the way they do, Turner combined her interest in human behavior with her attraction to finance. She enjoys considering why people make economic decisions and what factors influence the choices they make ̶— a valuable perspective when assessing investment prospects.

“I’m definitely someone who is intellectually curious, and in this industry, every day is different,” says Turner. “There are new challenges and discoveries with each transaction and type of company you’re evaluating. This keeps the work fresh and exciting, which motivates me to learn and do more.”

Turner notes that entering into the workforce five years ago, she knew she was looking for a balance with family and personal life – as her own parents modeled through their involvement in church, community, and after-school activities when she was growing up. “Lifestyle balance can be particularly challenging in the finance world, so what motivated me to come to PPC was knowing that I’d be in a role, in a space in finance, where I could still have that balance.”

Showing Up in a Room and For the Community

“I’ve been very fortunate in that I don’t feel that my race or gender have really been factors in my career to this point. I think it has definitely been more performance-based,” Turner notes. “I participated in speech and debate in high school, and I played sports, so I’m very used to speaking in front of people, being very direct and voicing my concerns. If I didn’t have that personality or had worked in spaces that discouraged those behaviors, maybe my experience would be different.”

Turner admits she is more wary of the possible dynamics at play around race and gender when outside of the office, in external meetings where she might not know what kind of biases are present. This means she’s more hyper-conscious of how she presents herself to get the reactions she hopes for, which could mean changing how she dresses or does her hair. Turner says, “That is something that we, as a society, are going to have to deal with on a longer-term basis.”

Turner is impressed by the leaders who walk their talk day-to-day, be it in the office or the community. “I look up to people with authenticity and passion, who convey it not just with words, but with what they do –whether it’s actively reaching out to people who are more junior, actively seeking their advice, or introducing them to committees or organizations within industries to try to broaden their vantage point.”

Nobody has role-modeled walking their talk more than Turner’s mother. As president of the school-site council, she helped Turner’s elementary school become a distinguished California school. She also began a group in the school district, whose aim was to provide support and advocate for the needs of Black parents and students. Turner observed her mom continuously play an active role in supporting the wider community, a trait she hopes to emulate.

Championing Voices and Being a Team Player

Turner would like her colleagues to see her as a compassionate leader who helps to amplify all the voices in the room.

“If I’m leading a meeting, I like to cold call on people and get a pulse for what different people are thinking, because it’s often people who are more reserved or introverted who have very deep insight,” she says.

Another way she seeks to champion differing perspectives is by having one-on-one conversations, fostering a safe space for people to share their opinions in a more private setting. From here, she can determine how to help those individuals share their thoughts in a larger space.

A rugby player while in college, Turner joined a club rugby team in London and applies the lessons she learned about teamwork from her childhood and current participation in sports.

“Everyone needs to be on the same page and playing their role, and when one person isn’t, it affects the rest of the team,” she says. “This applies to both sports and in the workplace; it is critical to have good communication and know how your actions affect others. In those times when you aren’t feeling your best, I think it’s important to ask for and are willing to receive support from your teammates.”

“I also believe it’s important to be mindful of how your teammates are feeling. Actively asking how others are feeling not only makes them feel more part of the team, but also establishes a level of trust and morale that makes everyone perform better,” she says. “Being aware of how everyone else is feeling helps form a cohesive team because at the end of the day, we’re all working towards the same goal. If one person is having an off day, that’s going to impact the whole team. Knowing how to rally around and motivate that person not only helps the individual but brings the whole team closer together.”

Turner wants to be the type of leader that helps aligns individuals’ goals to the broader team and organization’s vision, enabling everyone to move ahead and progress together.

Being Strong and Giving Back

Growing up, Turner remembers hearing stories about her father’s family working as sharecroppers in Louisiana before they moved to California, her home state.

“Only two generations back, my grandmother was picking cotton in the fields and making dresses out of flour sacks. That’s a reminder the past is not as far back as we perceive it to be.”

The wisdom Turner’s grandmother imparted has influenced her perspectives, “She told me ‘whatever your husband knows how to do, you should know how to do, too.’ Her lessons in perseverance and being self-sufficient have motivated me to be independent.”

What’s in the decade ahead for Turner? She envisions herself with a family and continuing to be led by her curiosity. In Chicago, she was highly involved in volunteering, especially working with children–whether helping to provide healthy meals or reading to them–and was struck by the impact of food insecurity in her community. She now participates in community service through the Junior League of London by helping raise awareness about poverty in the city.

By Aimee Hansen

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Charlene Kennedy: CEO, PGIM Private Capital (Ireland)

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Charlene Kennedy“One of the key attributes of a great leader is authenticity, therefore I refuse to have separate work and home life personalities” says Charlene Kennedy. “ I believe it is time to change the message that women or indeed anyone, needs to adjust their personalities to fit with the corporate world.”

Kennedy speaks to starting out her working life as a mom, leading from authenticity and vulnerability, and holding your vision.

Going Into Her Career as a Young, Single Mom

Kennedy gave birth to her first son in her final year of law studies so being a working mom was her reality from the start: “When I think back, the image that really stands out is sitting at this desk in my little college apartment, the baby in a rocker, and me rocking the baby with my foot while working my way through big, thick law books.”

As a single mother, Kennedy completed her law licensing exams and then secured a role with PricewaterhouseCoopers in their corporate finance team where she qualified as an accountant.

Shortly before the banking crisis, she joined Bank of Scotland Ireland, and was there until the company exited the Irish market. Kennedy then reassessed where she wanted to live and moved to the north coast area of Ireland to enjoy the lifestyle and support of family while growing her own. It was there where she joined Prudential. Coinciding with the arrival of her third child, she moved into PGIM Private Capital, and became CEO of their Irish entity 18 months ago.

“It’s been an extremely challenging but also a very rewarding year. My legal background, my finance background, my banking background, every single one of those aspects I use and weave together in my day-to-day role as CEO,” says Kennedy. “Each twist and turn along the way led me to being the right person for this role at the right time.”

Why Being a Mom Enhanced Her Career

“In my early 20s, most of my peers and colleagues were out partying at the weekend. I think being a mom really focused me on my career,” reflects Kennedy. “I was either at work or studying, or I was looking after my son. I was very serious early because I had a lot of responsibility, which from a career aspect is very helpful.”

She still remembers her weekly and daily schedule, as keeping to a rhythm was important in making her full life work: “Those years built resilience. I gained an ability to deal with challenges, because I confronted so many of them early on.”

Being Led by Curiosity and Desire for Growth

“I am extremely curious. I believe that knowledge and perspective bring a deeper understanding of what you are doing and why you are doing it. The bigger picture perspective allows you to deliver over and above what your role allows and creates opportunity for you and your company,” says Kennedy.

An essential ingredient to self-development in leadership, she feels her curiosity has truly come into greater value in the C-suite, where Kennedy is constantly interpreting “what does this mean?”

Kennedy has learned to embrace that she’s wired for growth more than comfort.

“I’ve had to accept about myself, and my personality, that I always want to be involved and be moving forward,” says Kennedy. “Even when I have taken jobs that could be a Monday-Friday, 9am-5pm, which are good from a lifestyle perspective, I could not just say stop and enjoy it. I couldn’t help but to involve myself in other projects.”

She has learned to manage her own drive to intentionally balance both family and work, which calls on those boundaries she learned young. Today, she is mom to three sons, who are 18, 4 and 2.

“I come home and I put down the phone or the laptop in a corner for family time,” says Kennedy. “I block out my calendar so nobody can put meetings in when the kids are home from daycare so I have those hours exclusively with them, and then I’m open to a meeting with colleagues once they are in bed.”

Holding To Your Vision

Along with many women in her generation, Kennedy feels she was strongly influenced in her worldview by seeing Mary Robinson, a lawyer, who had studied at Trinity College in Ireland and at Harvard Law School, become the first female president of Ireland in 1990: “My mother sat me down in front of the TV during the inauguration and said, ‘If a woman can become president of this country, there is nothing in this world stopping you from being who you want to be and doing what you want to do.’”

Kennedy feels that she internalized that message as a young woman, as did many women in her generation, and it has fortified their sense of belonging to their dreams.

From early on, Kennedy learned the value of keeping your eyes set on the big picture, regardless of situational challenges. “There have been hurdles and challenges along the way, but I don’t focus on them, I focus on where it is I want to go, and the hurdles eventually fade away, and I keep moving forward.”

“That’s the resilience I built,” she says.

Being Authentic as a Woman Leader and Embracing Vulnerability

The biggest skill that Kennedy has leaned into more in her CEO position is vulnerability.

“When you come from a technical background, whether it’s on the law side or the finance side, you pride yourself on technical knowledge and knowing everything about everything,” she notes. “As you step into leadership roles, that isn’t always going to be the case. You have to learn to be comfortable with not knowing everything and turning to others for guidance.”

“I like to surround myself with people that are a lot smarter than me and people from different backgrounds and perspectives. I embrace their challenge and feedback, and actually feel quite uncomfortable in an environment where everyone agrees with me.”

Kennedy has observed that if we truly value authenticity in leadership, then we should not encourage women to fit into a corporate mold that precludes the ability to be themselves.

“I love to see people push the boundaries a little. My husband, as a joke one year, bought me a book on defiant Irish women. I loved it. I keep that book on my desk, and it reminds me that we can achieve great things. You can be professional and successful, but you can also be yourself.”

Beyond all the advice one might receive on how you need to be and how you need to act as a leader, Kennedy suggests one benchmark: “At the end of the day, when you look back, how do you feel about how you behaved as a person? If you want to be proud of what you did, the way you do that is to be true to yourself.”

Being Approachable and Team-Oriented

Kennedy’s first partner she worked for at PwC is among her most inspiring leaders—and one she would want to emulate. He was personable, down-to-earth and approachable, but extremely knowledgeable and effective in his role. Those qualities inspired the organic support and loyalty of his team.

When it comes to managing her teams, Kennedy pulls from her experience playing team sports to emphasize the team approach: “We all have our roles and we all have to equally put in our input in order to deliver on a team focus,” she notes. “We all have our responsibilities, but we all need each other. It’s never about just one person, and when someone is overly focused on only themselves, it is disruptive.”

With time, the one thing Kennedy has improved on is embracing mistakes, and knowing that one mistake does not define a career nor negate your many accomplishments. She remembers a time when a mistake would have overtaken her focus, and she’s had to learn to overcome that tendency to beat herself up.

“I’ve learned to be easier on myself throughout the years. It’s still not easy and it’s something that I have to work at. I have found ways that help me relax, such as exercising and going to reflexology on a regular basis,” says Kennedy.

Kennedy’s sons are her greatest achievements. After hiking to Everest base camp back in 2012, she loves to hike in the mountains of coastal Ireland around Donegal with her family, where she relishes the energetic high of an expanded perspective.

By Aimee Hansen

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Sara Coelho: Partner, Financial Restructuring & Insolvency, Shearman & Sterling LLP

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Sara Coelho“I’m open to things going in a lot of different directions and to seeing things in a different way than people expect,” says Sara Coelho. “I really try to foster that approach, because novel solutions bubble up.”

Coelho talks about why her practice is a jack-of-all-trades art, standing her ground as a woman and the creativity of receptivity within law.

The “Liberal Arts Area of Law”

With Shearman & Sterling since 2016, and promoted to partner this past July, Coelho has been in the insolvency practice for fifteen years.

“Any time you have an insolvency situation, by definition people can’t follow the law. When something isn’t working, you get to take a deep dive into why and have to figure out a way to make something of that, and the tools really vary depending on the business,” she says. “Every situation has its own dimensions, so you constantly get to learn something new. If you are a liberal arts major, you would like what I do.”

Coelho continues, “I’m often doing things I have no prior expertise in, for example, negotiating tax debt and tax statutes, because of the underlying needs of the situation,” she further explains. “Sometimes we litigate to get to a resolution of a dispute. Sometimes we create deals. We’ll use any field of law to construct a deal that takes the situation to a better place.”

Her area is so flexible that when students ask her about a typical day, Coelho tells them to give her a year and she’ll say what she was doing in that period of time. Collaboration with other lawyers and financial advisors is critical to her work: often part of the solution is bringing in the expert who knows the tried-and-true approach, and another is confronting an issue alien to anything she’s ever done. Hence, the sophistication of problems, quality of people and intellectual challenges have held her attention in this field.

The Creativity of Receptivity

Coelho feels persistence has served her. She has always been able to put her head down and commit to a project she’s taken on. She’s been called a “lawyer’s lawyer” in that she has an analytical curiosity and loves to go deep into a problem, which means encouraging a spaciousness for unexpected solutions.

“There’s often a real reluctance to bring forward something that is a little off the wall,” she observes, “but you could miss an opportunity that way.”

In law, creativity is often less conceiving of something new and bringing it into existence, but rather an artful receptivity to the hidden key that already exists that you’re not yet seeing.

“So much of law is a very set underlying body of concepts, and people lose track of a big percentage of it. So often there is just something lurking there, that’s pretty direct and obvious, but actually very hard to see if you don’t come at it with an open mindset,” she explains. “It’s a receptivity, an orientation of faith that there’s going to be useful things that emerge. It’s a melding of a creative mindset with the orthodox.”

Staking Her Ground As A Woman

While Coelho admits her field has an inadequate representation of women, especially senior partners, she also often finds there are more women than she realized. She also feels the reputation of being male-dominated deters women from considering a field they might thrive in: “There are women who are thriving in all of the difficult roles and more than you would think.”

At the same time, Coelho acknowledges that she does feels some pressure to be beyond perfect and tends to speak concisely, getting to her point quickly while she has the moment, whereas she witnesses men talk at length without the social pressure to be precise.

“I’m working on trying to take up more time and space, and defending the perimeter to be able to do that,” she notes, “because sometimes you can’t appropriately advocate otherwise.”

Coelho acknowledges that being a woman distinguishes you, but that advantage can backfire if you’re perceived as the woman lawyer and especially if there’s a general assumption of irrelevance.

For example, on a conference call for a major deal where both Coelho and another female counterpart lawyer represented different clients with predictably different perspectives, the opposing side confused their two arguments, because, she suspects, the woman lawyers’ voices were understood as interchangeable. Coelho finds it hard to imagine that same bewildering lack of differentiation occurring for a man.

“Things still go on, but at the same time, you’re just focused on the problem and the work,” says Coelho. She notes that self-validating verbal feedback from highly respected top lawyers has been a touchstone to measure her lawyering and has kept her from falling into an unproductive level of self-questioning, especially when she’s confronted with aggression or doubt.

Clarifying The “Stupid Questions“

In addition to helping associates become familiar with the essential craft of her “renaissance profession,” Coelho seeks to demystify some of the basics that challenged her. When she first began, she felt one of the hardest parts was just figuring out how things got done – down to how you frame an e-mail and how long you wait to chase up on it.

Coelho volunteers information and invites the conversation around questions she found perplexing when starting out, especially if the response she had was reactive or dismissive: “I try to ask, what would have been the most constructive response for me?”

“For example, as a lawyer, to say how much time should I spend on something is a very loaded question because obviously you should do the best job possible for the client. Well, the best job possible might mean thousands of hours or significant expense, and maybe the client doesn’t want that,” she notes. “So there’s always this judgment about how exactly to approach the problem, how much depth to go in and what are the optimal things to focus on. These are complex judgements people have to make, so I like to be transparent about that kind of process.”

Boiling down why inviting questions as a senior lawyer is important, Coelho says: “The stupid question is the most important one to ask because you definitely don’t want to make a stupid mistake.”

For women in particular, Coelho also emphasizes the importance of really stepping back to ask what you personally want, rather than letting the ongoing demands of your external environment, including simply keeping up with the work, dictate where you end up.

An Unforgettable Mentor

Coelho considers her grandmother the most mindful person she has ever met. As a child, Coelho would join her in hanging laundry, picking fruit or doing some other form of tending to ordinary things.

The most unforgettable moment that affected her was listening to her grandmother talk about one single lemon with such elaborate understanding and appreciation that it underlined a whole wisdom of her Grandmother’s way of living in the world: “Listening to her talk about this lemon and what it was, exactly why it had a different flavor than others and how you would use it, in such depth, crystallized for me her way of being and how wonderful that is. And how much better life is, if you can bring that sort of appreciation and experience to whatever it is you’re doing.”

Coelho adores her three and a half year old son, Caleb, and, in addition to being a prolific reader of social sciences “light” and economics, loves to garden – and as her grandmother, tend attentively to the small and sacred matters of the home.

By Aimee Hansen

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Cheryl Akawie: Head of U.S. Investment Grade Research, PGIM Fixed Income

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“There’s still a notion that all paths in investing lead to investment banking, which dissuades many women from entering into a career in investing, but it’s definitely not the case,” says Cheryl Akawie.

Akawie speaks to holding to your values, the importance of curiosity and why you want to learn from and be the kind of leader you respect.

An Ever-Changing Context

Joining Prudential out of Lehigh University as a finance major, Akawie relatively quickly gravitated from investment auditing to working directly with investments, where she felt her skills and interest would be optimized.

For over 28 years, she’s been working in investments–covering some of the major sectors she began with, such as telecom and cable–and stretching into new sectors such as media and technology.

“Everything changes–the companies have changed, the industries change. Right now, the tech industry is going through tremendous change,” says Akawie. “I’m watching which companies will be winners and losers, so my job stays interesting even within the same sectors.”

Akawie calls herself a ‘credit geek’: “I like to dig into the details of companies and figure out what makes them tick and what they might do next. What will make them successful or not successful as things change–will the big names in linear television be successful when the world has moved to streaming?”


She appreciates how integrated the investment process is from start to finish at PGIM Fixed Income, with hand-in-hand collaboration between analysts and portfolio managers. Taking on a new position leading the U.S. investment grade research team a couple years back has allowed her to support experts across the various sectors, helping ensure the well-established investment process runs smoothly and her teams’ contributions are recognized.

Holding To Your Values

“To me, what has mattered in my success has been being true to myself and not compromising my beliefs. That applies in many different ways,” says Akawie. “For example, I could not be on the sell-side and push an investment idea if I didn’t believe in it. As an analyst, I analyze it and tell it like it is. I’m not going to hold back on my views. Being on the buy-side, we don’t have to buy everything, so it has always been a good natural home for me.”

Going further, she expresses: “I think that principle has stood through all aspects of my career and added to my leadership. You should never compromise your values and you should be willing to stand up for what’s right. You should be willing to stand up for your team.”

Moving into a leadership role has meant taking a more holistic view not only in looking comparatively across industries, but also putting herself in the shoes of others when making organizational decisions.

“If we’re trying to revamp a process, I have to consider what may work better for the team,” she says. “As a leader, it’s important to step out of my role and put myself as the team leader and the organizational leader to consider what is best for the team, regardless of whether it would negatively impact or be inconvenient for me.”

Choosing Your Leadership Approach

Akawie feels her promotion largely came down to her track record on training up more junior analysts across the years. She enjoys working with junior talent and imparting her skills to help develop their ability to analyze, especially appreciating the moment when it all “clicks,” which she argues only happens when the analyst learns to combine fundamental credit research analysis and the relative value decision around which bonds to own.

Her personal leadership approach is to be relatable and approachable, and she keeps an open door policy.

“I had to figure out what kind of leader I wanted to be, and I’ve had different kinds of managers over the years. I’ve had the micromanager, where they want to check over everything that you do. I’ve had the more hands-off manager that recognizes you are a professional,” she says. “I chose to emulate my style more from the latter, because I respected when I was on the other side. I’m here if you need me. I’ll be your coach and advocate. But to get from here to there, use your own style, as long as you get it done.”

Myth-busting: Not All Investment Careers are Investment Banking

In addition to running the investment grade credit research group, Akawie is actively involved in recruiting for the credit research team in addition to sitting on the Talent Council, so she has a special window into the underrepresentation of women.

“It really frustrates me that even now it’s still such a male-dominated industry and in any meeting, there are still noticeably fewer women in the room,” says Akawie, who feels a perception issue plays into this.

“There’s still this perception that all investment careers are investment banking, where you don’t have a life,” she says. “I really wish there was a way to get the message out to young women that there are plenty of fulfilling, lucrative careers that you can have in asset management that don’t involve working 18-hour days and weekends. You can actually live a balanced life while also being a successful investment professional.”

Passion And Curiosity Go A Long Way

Akawie feels that having a passion for investments, as well as a strong intellectual curiosity, is a cornerstone of being a successful credit analyst or portfolio manager.

“Your mind should always be open because you can find investment ideas anywhere. You hear something on the news, or you read an article in Barron’s–you see something not necessarily in your industry, but it could be related,” she notes. “It’s that intellectual curiosity and passion that matters, because it won’t seem like a job, and you’ll have a long and dynamic career.”

Akawie also presses that it’s a measure of intelligence to be honest about what you don’t know, and that it’s critical to remember that in the world of investments, you’re never going to get everything right.

“We’re investing in corporate bonds. They’re not guaranteed. You’re not going to be right 100% of the time,” she says. “One of the harder things when you’re trying to transition somebody from a junior analyst to a senior analyst is developing that willingness to stick your neck out, express your opinion and not be afraid to be wrong. And if you are wrong, admit and own it, don’t make excuses, simply learn and move on.”

She leverages her own curiosity to convert the occasional missed call into a learning experience: “I often review, and I’ll ask what did I miss? What could I have done differently? And, then you make a better investment decision next time because of what you learned this time.”

Being A Leader You Would Respect

Akawie has found informal mentorships are the most valuable kinds of mentoring, which comes back to being open and approachable.

“To be a mentor or to be a mentee, you have to open up and not be afraid to share parts of yourself–so that people actually get to know you and they’re willing to share their secret sauce,” she says. “And I think that comes from having personal relationships. If everything is just business, I think it makes it hard for that relationship to develop.”

When choosing who you wish to learn from, Akawie goes with whom she truly respects. For her, that’s someone who takes pride in their work and gives their full energy, earning the respect of their team, because this is what she values and wishes to do.

Akawie loves traveling the world and seeing new cultures, which have included Africa, Southeast Asia and Hong Kong. Currently, she’s steeped in her latest passion of home remodeling.

By: Aimee Hansen

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How Neurodiversity Can Enhance Your Organization

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neurodiversityRoben Dunkin, chief operations and innovation officer at PGIM, talks about the importance of neurodiversity in creating a culture of innovation in the workplace.

A Lesson From Mom

When she was just a little girl, Roben Dunkin received one of the biggest lessons that would later help shape her nearly three decades in the finance industry, most recently as chief operations and innovation officer at PGIM, the $1.5 trillion asset management business of Prudential Financial Inc. It was a lesson she learned from her mother, a teacher at a school for children on the autism spectrum. Meeting the children her mother worked with and seeing how she related to them was eye opening.

“The autism spectrum is such a broad range of so many different ways the brain works,” Dunkin says. “I could see my mom’s frustration, because the ability to communicate for some of these kids wasn’t there. But at the same time, I saw her compassion and patience. She found a way to understand what each one of them needed and she found a way to get through. She never gave up on anyone.”

That experience was something that stuck with her as she began her career in finance at Lehman Brothers, where she rose to global head of sales and investment banking technology.

“What I learned from my mom actually makes me a good manager—having that patience, and really trying to understand the different levels of how people communicate with each other,” Dunkin says. “It’s not just people with autism, everyone is so different and kind of quirky in their own way. Within my own family, we have a lot of dyslexia and ADHD. When you grow up with that around you, you learn that some people need extra time and attention to bring out their best. And their best might astound you. Not everyone understands that. They think if someone has one of those conditions, they’re not smart, or they’re not good enough.”

After Lehman’s failure in the financial crisis, Dunkin joined Credit Suisse and became a leader in the firm’s technology organization. In a position to influence the company’s talent strategy, she set her sights on changing management’s perception of what traits made a valuable employee.

The Great Untapped Population

“Everyone seems to understand now how important diversity is to a company, but too often, they overlook a large part of our population that is truly underserved, but also incredibly talented—one that crosses, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation and national origin,” Dunkin says. “People across the neurodiverse spectrum, which includes everything from Asperger’s and autism to ADHD and dyslexia, have to face a stigma. Their levels of unemployment are quite higher than the general population—as high as 80%.”

And yet, Dunkin points out, even if someone doesn’t have any of these conditions, they almost certainly know someone who does.

“Earlier in my career, one of my peers had a son who had Asperger’s syndrome and couldn’t get a job. And we talked about how so many people who are on the spectrum, their brains think differently—sometimes they can see patterns other people can’t, they go about solving problems differently, and that can be a good thing. We started just kind of brainstorming, asking, ‘What can we do about this?’”

The idea that Dunkin and her colleague eventually developed was to actively seek out neurodiverse individuals for a pilot program in data science—specifically, to identify anomalies in data surrounding trade fails. Trade fails can happen when there are mistakes in processing or mismatched information, and they can be a costly problem for a firm. One of the goals of Roben’s team was to discover if there were particular clients, types of trades, or other patterns that would help them identify where problems might occur. While AI and machine learning could parse huge amounts of data, the computers had their limitations. There were still reams of data to filter out.

Participants in the pilot program, as it turned out, were quick to find patterns others had missed. “They were able to look at the data and pinpoint the issue, pinpoint the problem. They had the ability to redirect the technology to ask the right questions. That’s such a specific skill set that most of us really have to learn. There seemed to be an innate ability in some of the people that we were working with to be able to do that,” Dunkin says. “It was just really impressive the amount of positive feedback that we got from people working with the individuals in the pilot program. And those participants—they were so thrilled to be employed and really contribute. It was so rewarding on so many levels.”

Dunkin doesn’t want to make it sound simple, because it isn’t. A lot of legwork went into making sure the program was set up for success.

The Right Goals, The Right People, The Right Projects

It’s the same work Dunkin is putting in now to establish the neurodiversity program at PGIM, with one big difference.

“We’re not looking to narrowly focus this on one area of the business,” Dunkin says. “Individuals on the spectrum have skills and interests that are just as diverse as their neurotypical peers, and we see this as something we want all our asset managers to be involved in and benefit from.”

That begins with a firm commitment from the top.

“Neurodiversity can be a very emotional topic,” Dunkin says. “Recently we had a panel with many of our senior leaders at PGIM, some with children who are on the spectrum, even leaders who identify as neurodiverse themselves. The head of our largest asset management business spoke at length about his two sons who have autism. We had hundreds of employees attend and it was game changing for a lot of people who were able to put their hand up and self-identify. We broke through a lot of walls.”

Secondly, for a neurodiversity program to succeed, managers need to be trained and prepared to work with individuals who may miss social cues. Those managers need to be clear about expectations and literal about tasks.

“Cues and signals that we might expect would be normal are not normal for a lot of people on the spectrum. So you have to ask questions differently—you have to be more nuanced, and can’t worry about body language and eye contact. Job interviewers and managers should be able to understand how to engage with people differently,” Dunkin says. “It’s important to learn where someone is on the spectrum and understand how to help them thrive and deliver their very best. Do they feel more comfortable emailing, do they not do well in a group setting? You want to always be learning how you can give and receive feedback so you can course correct relatively quickly.”

The remote work environment brought on by the pandemic has added to this challenge.

“In some cases, if you talk to some of the people who are on the spectrum, they’re loving remote work, because they don’t have to interact with people in person,” Dunkin says. “At the same time, for a manager, it makes it even more difficult to engage with that individual and make sure they feel included.”

Finally, Dunkin says you need to connect individuals with the right projects, with a clear business case and business value.

“You can’t necessarily put someone on a trading desk environment, but you can put someone on in a data science role. So it’s being very clear about matching the person and the right skill set with the right job and being really explicit about what you’re aiming to accomplish,” Dunkin says.

Why all this matters

“The financial services industry is struggling to hold onto talent,” Dunkin says. “And here is a talent pool that is able and willing to work, and has skills to contribute in the right roles.”

Her prior experience tells her the effort is worth it.

“It’s hard to find data scientists—you can’t train them fast enough. And we know there’s high attrition rates in data science—when you train them, they leave. But our neurodiverse employees in the pilot program were super loyal. We built a team of data scientists from scratch who were able to help us leapfrog ahead quite drastically to meet our goals. We’d done right by them, we gave them a chance, and they rewarded us by staying with the company.”

Dunkin believes that attention paid to neurodiversity in an organization has a much wider impact on company culture, leading to better outcomes for all employees.

“The pandemic has been a very challenging time,” she says. “We’re all uncomfortable, we’re all re-learning how to interact with each other, we’re all working differently. We all need compassion and patience. If we’re not using this moment to identify talented individuals inside and outside our organizations and do what we need to do to support them, then we’re wasting a golden opportunity.”

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