Tag Archive for: diversity of thought

Rhonda Johnson: CEO, Different Like You, Inc & Acting Deputy Director, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau

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Rhonda Johnson “I like to view people as generally good. Without a tool to understand when you’re doing something that causes harm, you may not even know you’re doing it,” says Rhonda Johnson. “In the corporate world, we have tools, training and social pressure to moderate our bias and behavior, but not as much in small businesses. Without a tool, how can we address it?”

Johnson speaks about the unfolding of her DEI journey from Wall Street to Washington, D.C., being part of the founding team of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB), and launching Different Like You, Inc and the Sacki App to weave the principle of inclusion deeper into the social fabric of small businesses and our daily lives.

A Culture Change from NYC to D.C.

Growing up as a New Yorker in a diverse neighborhood, Johnson was struck by the lack of diversity when she entered into Wall Street, often as the only woman or woman of color in the room.

“Different perspectives add value to the solution. If everyone was coming from Harvard or Stanford or Ivy League schools, I felt there wasn’t enough diversity even in the way people think, because they’re trained how to think at these schools,” she recalls. “I was interested in diversity of thought and experience and felt we needed to do something different.”

At James D. Wolfensohn, Inc., a private equity firm, Johnson began recruiting at Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs), too. Quickly, she witnessed how diversity shifts the culture. She observed how bringing in people of different economic, educational, and ethnic or racial backgrounds disrupts group think and status quo approaches to problem-solving, which also introduces tension.

“At that time, nobody was confronting these questions. What does inclusion look like when you bring in different types of people if we don’t operate on the same plane?” she was asking. “How do we solve this problem?” Diversity was being addressed but inclusion was lacking. Over the years this became a nagging question.

In November 2009, during Barack Obama’s presidency, Johnson moved to Washington D.C. to work in the Office of the Under Secretary for Domestic Finance within the U.S. Treasury. Her boss Jeffrey Goldstein, then chairman at Hellman & Friedman, was nominated to the post and brought her in. She served as a review analyst for two years, during which her passion to advance inclusion increased.

“Back in New York, even though diversity was limited within financial services, I didn’t feel isolated or marginalized, as it was a melting pot. If you work in NYC you are exposed to different types of people as part of daily life. D.C. felt way more polarized. Even where people lived was very racially divided. I was frankly shocked at the difference in culture,” she notes. “It started to slowly change because people of color from across the country were moving to the area to work for Barack Obama, so more racial, ethnic, cultural and economic diversity was being infused into the DC area and the federal government.”

Johnson moved on to become a founding member of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) in 2011, initially as D&I Program Analyst and then as Senior Advisor, Office of Minority and Women Inclusion, before stepping into the deputy director role as of April. Now she focuses on assessing diversity and inclusion within financial services, essentially going full circle to help financial institutions address the challenges she identified early in her career.

Why Diverse Perspectives Bring Creativity

“I am curious about people. I want to hear about your story. I want to know about you, what you’re doing, where you’re trying to go,” says Johnson. “I also want to hear your perspective about solutions we’re working on. I feel no one person has the answer, and all products and solutions can benefit from different perspectives.”

Meeting people where they are and valuing collaboration, she is a furtive gatherer and proponent of the creative value of multiple perspectives.

“So many big decisions have been made by people who were all thinking alike. I feel it’s critical to have different perspectives on solving problems, especially big problems,” says Johnson. “More than one thing can be true. I try to remind people that it doesn’t have to be either/or. It can be and. I like to consider how we can meld ideas to come up with a good solution. If there are two opposing ideas, rarely is one or both entirely wrong.”

She gives the example of a mechanic looking at a problem in the medical field. Their opinion may be invalidated because they’re not a doctor, but being outside of that frame also gives the mechanic an opportunity to see a totally different solution which the doctor may not be able to consider from his vantage point within it.

“When you have diversity of thought, I genuinely believe you open the door to much more and many creative solutions,” emphasizes Johnson. “I often think the creativity lies not necessarily in the subject matter expert, but in the person who is looking at the problem for the first time.”

Raising Her Voice To Advocate for Inclusion

Johnson has always valued giving employees a voice – through surveys with disaggregated data results, through ERGs, and diversity councils. She also had to raise her own voice to make sure that happened.

“I’ve always been that person to fight for the underdog. I don’t like unfairness,” says Johnson. “So anytime I saw unfair treatment, I was definitely always willing to speak up, even in an environment where I didn’t feel like I had a lot of power.”

Early on in her career, Johnson focused on being observant, listening, learning and working hard, not so much on her voice being heard. Until it became necessary. Compared to the NYC culture, where people were more forthright, Johnson found the culture polite and evasive in D.C.

“There was a disconnect between what people were saying and what they were willing to do,” she observed, “I take people at their word. If you say you support this, I expect your efforts to reflect that, and so when that didn’t happen, I would confront the person. I found out people weren’t used to being challenged on what they promised in this space,” she says. “So I had to find a different way than directly calling people out. That’s when I shifted my approach, I started to dive deep into the research to ensure that my colleagues could better understand the importance of diversity and inclusion initiatives being proposed, I began sharing the data behind the strategies, and working collaboratively to gain buy-in and then documenting the commitments people made. It often requires more work to help people understand the importance of equity, so it became more socially acceptable to also hold them accountable.”

Launching a Social Inclusion App

Her professional focus on DEI and the culture shock of moving from NYC to D.C. also spurred Johnson on an entrepreneurial journey. Whereas in the NYC melting pot, she could go into any restaurant and see diverse customers, when going out with friends in D.C., she often experienced being treated differently.

“People take their biases everywhere and if there’s no incentive to check them, they won’t change. We are imperfect and the result of so much we’ve experienced,” she says. “In the corporate world, we get training to check our biases. But I’m not sure that happens at small businesses, merchants, apparel shops, gift stores and restaurants. I felt there was a need for more communication around how different groups of people are being treated – whether it’s because of race, language proficiency, or size.”

She launched differentlikeyouinc.com and the Sacki App. Sacki is similar to Yelp with a diversity matching dimension. Consumers are invited to create a profile and share positive and constructive reviews on their experiences with merchants. Sacki matches consumers (based on their demographic profile) with relevant review data.

In 2015, she first began to frame out the App but then got stalled on development setbacks. During the lull of the lockdown, she decided not to watch television and found that she was re-energized in her passion for developing Sacki.

She notes, “I began to research the impacts on mental health and physical illness from the stress of life for groups of people – Hispanic people, black people, people with disabilities, obese people. All these interactions they have on a day-to-day basis cause so much stress and affect health and mortality,” she says. “How people are treated on a day-to-day basis while going about their lives has such a massive impact on our society, daily micro-aggressions result in anger, frustration, depression, that lead to decisions and behaviors that affect all of us. The goal is that everyone should be treated with dignity and respect.”

Johnson’s Sacki App will hold people accountable in smaller, less formal business settings that also contribute to day-to-day interactions. Currently, the Sacki App is in beta in Atlanta. Sacki will go national to major cities within a year and international within a couple of years. Currently, she is in the process of learning how people behave with the App and what modifications need to be made.

Dealing with development, technology and design, Johnson has been stretched by launching an App, but her entrepreneurial spirit had already been there.

“When I went to the CFPB, I had the opportunity to be super creative informing our office, our function and our role,” she says. “There was a lot of opportunity to be innovative and bold because we were just launching and building the agency.

Building A World Without Shells

“I have always been extremely sensitive, and I think I built this shell around myself because it wasn’t working for me,” she recalls, giving the example of a female colleague once stealing the idea Johnson had shared with her and presenting it to their boss. “I felt so naive. Different incidents in the work culture broke my heart. That hardened me. I didn’t trust people.”

Though part of her feels putting a guard up was necessary, she also knows operating with a survival mechanism is not the same as thriving, and she doesn’t want to do it to herself, anymore.

“What’s for you no one can ever take away. Stay true to yourself. Maintain your authenticity,” she would say she has learned through the years. “I think my authenticity is important. Sometimes you have to figure out whether you’re in the right spaces for who you are, who you truly are,” she muses. “Without the shell, I may not have survived in certain environments. Being authentic may lead you to different places and even doing different things. It sounds cliche but I think people should follow their heart.”

Now Johnson is expanding into more of who she truly is while enjoying the culture and nature of Washington D.C., too. The Sacki App, based on inclusion, is her way of trying to impact the world so people can be who they are everywhere they go.

By: Aimee Hansen

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Pamela Peace: Principal & North America Client Management, PGIM Fixed Income

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Pamela Peace“The world is different now and leadership looks different,” says Pamela Peace, “Today anyone at any level should be afforded a trusted space to have a dialogue with their manager about the support needed to be successful.”

Peace talks about the values she holds dear, lessons learned throughout her career and how she has developed as a leader in ways that feel true to her goals, ambitions, and most importantly authentic to who she is as a person.

As a Senior Client Manager for PGIM Fixed Income, Pamela recently expanded her role as a leader within the organization, taking on responsibilities as lead manager for PGIM Fixed Income’s North America Client Management team: a role which she notes is intentionally focused on creating valuable partnerships for clients and opportunities for teammates in Fixed Income to deliver excellence in client relations.

Pamela reflects on driving change and rising above dissenting voices. “It is vital to perform well at our core duties to be viewed as credible and effective. What makes an individual a true leader? One who motivates and inspires others to perform well at their core duties, has the courage to push for change, and holds the unique ability to cultivate diverse perspectives.”

Her perspectives as Co-Chair of PGIM Fixed Income’s Culture Council highlight her commitment to amplify the organization’s cultural values.

Values She Holds Dear: Diversity of Perspectives

Having worked in fixed income and asset management for over twenty-five years, and with PGIM Fixed Income for the past seven years serving international clients in several regions of the world, Peace thrives on interacting with a range of people and cultures, from language to food. Even more, she loves experiencing the diversity of perspectives that come forth, and she learns broadly from every interaction in her job.

“We are a global organization. When we think about different investment strategies, we must consider every aspect of the world. We must take in various inputs – we must look at the world holistically, make decisions based on our analysis, clients’ expectations, what the markets are doing, geopolitical climate, regulatory, etc. These are just a few of many inputs that go into framing our decisions,” she reflects. “As a Client Manager, for a global asset management firm, I bring a wider awareness into everything I do. I believe it is core to my job and how I live in a global society.”

Peace is motivated by watching the people she leads develop uniquely in their skillsets and the legacy her commitment to talent will leave. “I’m so excited to see how the PGIM Fixed Income North America client managers, which consist of different generations, experiences, and cultures, are going to come together to bring forward new ideas for client engagement,” she says. “Our team embraces the view, ‘we can do hard things for our clients’, and if we believe we can do hard things together, that means we’re all thinking and bringing in ideas, and that’s going to be an exciting adventure.”

Lessons Learned: The Values of Humility, Constant Learning and Service

On advice for those developing their talents, she is open about her own path of development, “Trust me, I have made a lot of mistakes where I have had to say, that was not a good decision. Now, how can I actually take that and learn from it?” says Peace. “Humility allows me to understand where I am in my learning journey and acquiring more knowledge has been something I’ve had to own and develop personally.”

In her very first job at a naval base, she worked under an educator, who was a computer scientist, who imparted upon Peace that she could learn anything once you accept your ability to learn it. That woman, she noted, looked like her. Long before that, her mother, who raised eight children spanning twenty-two years as a single mom after becoming widowed, showed her the merits of hard work.

Combining those influences, Peace is a self-confessed constant learner who takes night courses to stay abreast on new topics in management and leadership. She’s presently taking courses to continue to improve on being an effective leader, as well as pondering the EMBA journey. Early on in her career, she learned there was value to admitting what you don’t know and being receptive to educational opportunities was essential – and that has stayed with her.

“I think vulnerability was important to getting me to this level in my career at PGIM, “she notes. “Also, having grace, humility, determination, and the curiosity to learn at any point in life are key attributes everyone should channel.”

She would add that being in service of others is a core value that has carried her through work and life: “My job is to serve others, and I wake each day reminding myself of that fact. In my job it is – PGIM’s clients first, the people working alongside me and those that I’m responsible for.”

In her personal time, she volunteers with aged people in underserviced areas and learns deep lessons from the elders she serves.

Lessons Learned: Leading as a Partner in Growth

A few years back, Peace had the experience of leading the London team and realized a lot about adjusting her communication and leadership style. Through that experience, she recognized the value of “meeting individuals where they are” to take them where you see they can go. This required adjusting her approach as a leader. When it comes to supporting her team now, Peace seeks to collaborate with those she leads on their development goals.

“The discussions I have with the individuals that work with me directly are very much: I am your advocate. I am your support. Let’s talk about what you need and where I think you need to grow. Then we’ll work together,” she says. “It’s an intellectual dialogue about development and being a partner and advocate in the space. It’s more of a leadership of equals as opposed to that of a hierarchy. Let’s come along as a partnership, and we’ll both get there and grow together.”

Every year in the annual reviews, Peace asks her direct reports to tell her one thing they want to learn or develop during that year, and she helps make that happen.

“They are accountable and feel as though they have ownership of their careers and development,” says Peace. “I’m there as a guide, support, and bumper when needed. That’s a valuable leadership skill that has worked for me.”

Not only does she see her own role as being supportive, but at this stage in her journey, Peace sees it as important to communicate to her own bosses what support she is going to need from them to be successful. Having the direct conversation cemented their willingness to commit that support.

“It’s important to be able to trust and communicate to your leaders: here’s what I need from you and what I need you to help me with,” she says. “That has made the difference for me in my career. And that is not wisdom that one must wait until they are well into their careers to acquire anymore. Remember, what I said at the outset of this interview, the world is different now, and leadership looks different.”

Both parties must agree and hold each other accountable but creating the space to have the conversation matters: “I know, it is a hard thing for some people to understand and accept – I must trust you enough to say, here’s what I’m looking for and here’s what I need. As managers, we must work to create the space for trust, and be ready to receive and act on the needs request.”

Developing as a Leader: Promoting Inclusion and Inspiring Women

Peace wants her team members to feel she brings positivity, openness, inclusivity, and a space of trust, where they can bring their best talents forward.

Inviting inclusion daily might mean giving people, who do not always get the opportunity to speak up on a call, a direct invitation to share their opinion or to lead a discussion. It is also being interested in her team as individuals outside of work. As Co-Chair of the PGIM Fixed Income Culture Council, she’s responsible for executing the values of the organization and creating a safe and inclusive environment built on collegiality, trust, and an unwavering commitment to clients among other positive attributes.

“Part of my responsibility, as a Co-Chair, is to model those values,” says Peace, “which includes bringing together our differences. Valuing people with different backgrounds and different skills to create diversity of thought to execute our mission, which often involves making a lot of subtle connections.”

Going back to her early career before PGIM, Peace lived the experiences, as a black woman, of being the “background individual,” there but not getting the opportunities, not receiving the speaking role, being trivialized. “Having had these experiences, I can say to young women who are coming into their careers, including my own daughter, you don’t have to take it. You do not have to shrink to the biases or comments that make you feel less than – change the norm and the direction of conversation,” she states. “Challenge the behavior appropriately – Ask the question, what does that really mean? Express when you’re offended and why, be prepared to have the conversation, receive the apology and extend grace if appropriate.”

She notes that she usually gives the benefit of the doubt and in most cases, believes there is value in having the hard conversations, because those questions often expose blind spots and lead to achieving a wider, more compassionate understanding of other’s lived experiences.

Developing as a Leader: Embracing Who You Are as a Person and Professional

Taking up distance running after age 40, Peace has completed four marathons and several half-marathons, and considers running outdoors to be spiritual.

Growing up in the middle of eight children gave her early life lessons in responsibility, navigating different personalities, taking care of each other, collaborating and valuing family – including her husband, adult son, and daughter.

She’s animated by new food, great wine with friends, the house she and her husband are remodeling, and she loves to dance. Peace recently cherished a holiday moment of karaoke and dancing with her daughter for the first time since her daughter was a child: “She is definitely smarter and has more rhythm, and that’s okay with me.”

It’s Pamela Peace’s lived experiences both inside and outside of work that define her as a leader and more precisely as someone who motivates and inspires those around her each day in service of PGIM’s clients.

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