Tag Archive for: DEI leadership

Natalie Gill, Head of DEI Strategy & Industry Engagement, PGIM

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Natalie GillNatalie Gill is responsible for helping drive the continued evolution of PGIM’s DEI strategy and deepening and broadening diversity partnerships both externally and internally, with a focus on the EMEA region. In addition, she focuses on developing global research and thought leadership to create positive change in the asset management industry.

“I’ve had a varied career, but now, as a DEI executive, my role is about celebrating diversity and amplifying the voices of those who feel unheard or unable to contribute to their full potential, due to cultural or systemic barriers,” says Natalie Gill. “I am motivated by the opportunity to influence change at a larger scale. Whilst my contribution in those moments is seemingly small, I am proud that it helps create a legacy for future generations.”

Charting A New Trajectory

“We’re accustomed to thinking that a successful career in financial services should have a linear, one directional trajectory working up through a hierarchy of corporate titles. But the path to my definition of ‘success’ – career fulfillment –is not always taken by climbing the corporate ladder,” says Gill. “My career has been a wonderful lattice of sideways, upwards and sometimes, even downward moves. Taking ownership of my career in this way has enabled me to build a unique portfolio of skills and expertise, and has ultimately led me to forge a successful, purposeful career doing what I love.”

Some of those career moves were intentional, with a clear objective to broaden her exposure or responsibilities. However, Gill has also allowed her decisions to be influenced by significant life moments. During the first eleven years of her career at Goldman Sachs, Gill’s priority was travel, and she jumped on every opportunity to expand her horizons. Then, with two young children at home, she elected to take a two-and-a-half-year career break. When she returned to the industry, Gill first picked up where she left off with a temporary consulting role at Morgan Stanley, followed by a role in regulatory reform at Deutsche Bank.

“Returning to financial services after a career break offered a pivotal window for me to pause, reflect and ask what I really wanted to be doing with my career. It was either a midlife crisis or an epiphany moment,” she says. “For me, having children really focused my career ambitions because I wanted to do something that would make them proud of me.”

Years earlier, she had encouraged and supported her husband to leave his job in investment banking to realize his ambition to become a firefighter, setting a precedent for making bold career changes. Having studied economics at Newcastle University in England, specializing in the economics of inequality and poverty and development economics, Gill’s passion for fairness, equity and inclusion had been a thread throughout her career.

So, in 2016, she made the decision to step away from financial services to join a gender diversity consultancy. “At the time, the consultancy was working closely with the UK Government’s Equality Office. I found it immensely rewarding, and after three years there, I decided to blend my two areas of expertise – DEI and financial services.” This led Gill to move back into the financial services industry as a DEI practitioner in 2019, most recently joining PGIM in her current role in 2022.

Why Being “Invested” Matters in DEI

“For me, the role of DEI is a vocational one,” says Gill. “If companies want to remain successful in the future, they can’t have a culture where everyone thinks the same and agrees with each other. We need alternative perspectives and different ways of thinking to innovate and deliver the best solutions for our clients. And I take it seriously that I have a responsibility to support and represent those at work who, perhaps, don’t feel as heard.”

Gill complements her passion for DEI with a love for numbers, enabling her to take a data-driven and evidence-based approach to her work.

“My background in economics has led me to approach DEI more systematically perhaps than those who have come to the profession through a more traditional route. I see data as critical to evidencing areas of inequity and accelerating change. It’s particularly important in the DEI sphere to remind people of the potential business outcomes and to measure progress and impact,” she says.

Compared to other DEI roles she’s held, her role at PGIM is both employee- and industry-focused. Part of her responsibility is to ensure the company culture is inclusive and enables all employees to thrive. Another piece is leveraging the opportunity for PGIM to play a role in driving change in the industry.

“Currently, we are operating in a fairly polarized environment around the world when it comes to diversity, equity and inclusion, which extends to the workplace. Given my global role, it’s imperative for me to have a deep understanding of industry, society and legal standards on DEI in every region we operate in,” says Gill. “For example, in the UK and Europe, there is an expectation for firms to take greater accountability in driving social change given local governments and regulators have identified a connection between conduct, culture and inclusion.” She continues, “Because of this, the broader impact of DEI becomes far more important as our clients and employees demand more from us.”

Using Your Voice and Broadening Your Perspective

A key part of Gill’s role is to challenge the status quo, to encourage leaders and managers to disrupt their default thinking. She takes a straight-forward, fact-based approach to communicating and tries to challenge people to think differently. But being direct didn’t come naturally. With a Royal Air Force pilot father and a mother who was a teacher, Gill grew up in a family where hierarchy, respect for seniority and deference were instilled. When she first entered the working world, she deferred to titles, but through her experience, she learned that titles and seniority aren’t everything.

“The best leaders are those who recognize you don’t have to be the most senior person in the room to bring valuable insight or perspective that drives change or helps to make the optimum decision,” she says. “We’re all here because we have a role to play and a level of expertise in a particular area. Part of my journey has been overcoming my discomfort when faced with resistance and instead, learning how I can better use my knowledge and expertise to address the differing perspectives in a room and influence people to see DEI as a business imperative.”

Gill’s learning curve has been building up a strong support network for a role that spans the organization and beyond. “Driving inclusive culture change touches every part of the organization, so you can’t do it on your own,” notes Gill. “So, taking the time to build the network of people who can support you is important.”

Inspired from the idea of creating your personal boardroom from Zella King and Amanda Scott, Gill identified the six to twelve people that will most help her to succeed in her role. For example, she seeks guidance from friends and mentors who she knows will challenge her thinking, highlight her blind spots and help strengthen her resolve. She also regularly leverages the opportunities to expand her perspective and circle.

“When I have the opportunity to go out and mix, either at an internal function or an external event, I actively and intentionally speak to people who I wouldn’t ordinarily know,” she says. “Sometimes you have to overcome the tendency to sit in safety and familiarity because building a valuable network is about breaking out of your comfort zone and putting yourself in a position to meet people who maybe have different experiences and backgrounds than you.”

How Different Experiences Inform Your Leadership

Gill’s work experiences at different organizations have been a boon to her success. Over the last 20-plus years, she has worked for British, American, German, Spanish and Japanese organizations, and each has had different systems, approaches, processes and cultural nuances, giving rise to different perspectives. Working across multiple geographical regions, she’s also gained insight into translating her message, so it lands effectively for a given audience.

Regardless of whether someone moves firms or stays within the same, one of the biggest experiences she learned from is having different managers.

“We talk a lot about what ‘good’ leadership is and how it should be role-modelled by the most senior people in our organizations. However, we’re most impacted in our day-to-day by our immediate managers and the people we work most closely with. Throughout my career, I’ve probably learned as much from poor managers about how I don’t want to behave as a leader as from those who were better at it.”

Several years ago, a respected manager imparted on Gill that their job was not to be the loudest voice in the room – but to amplify and curate the voices of everybody else in the room. Gill embraced this approach to leadership and believes that the best gauge for her success is whether the people around her are succeeding. This, she says, comes down to the privilege of being in a position where you can choose to create positive impact for others.

“To me, it’s not about how or why you are in a position of leadership. It’s about how you choose to use that privilege – recognizing, in the moment, where and how you’re able to positively support and influence other people’s careers,” she notes. “My success, as a leader, is about leveraging my privilege to uplift others—acknowledging different perspectives, viewpoints, and experiences.”

Taking Ownership of Your Journey

Gill emphasizes taking ownership of your own career, which includes seeking out people who inspire you to learn more. Rather than waiting on a formal mentor program, actively reach out to people who spark your interest and grow your own network.

“Too often, I see colleagues wait to be assigned a mentor through a random matching process. There’s much more to be gained from identifying someone who inspires you and reaching out to them directly. If you tell someone that you’re fascinated by the work they do, and you’d like fifteen minutes to learn more about what they do and how they got there, it’s incredibly rare for that person to say ‘no.’ If they do, it’s likely due to time constraints,” she notes. “Yet, we’re quite reticent, and maybe even more so culturally here in England, to knock on someone’s door and ask.”

The notion of taking control of and shaping your own career is one that Gill imparts to the many young people she mentors, including her own children. “I’m proud that my children have seen, firsthand, that it’s possible to pivot mid-career to get fulfillment. I hope they will be inspired to take similar action to achieve a sense of purpose in their own careers when the time comes.”

“Whether you opt for a more traditional ladder or a broader lattice of work experiences, it’s also important to find time to recharge. Early on, one of my closest mentors told me that I am solely accountable for the balance between work and the rest of my life.” Gill continues, “In a role like diversity, equity and inclusion, where there is always more to achieve, this can sometimes be difficult to switch off, but I know I am more effective, more influential and more motivated to succeed afterwards.”

In her downtime, Gill likes to stay active with Pilates and a women’s field hockey league. She also enjoys reading psychological thrillers with a traditional English cup of tea.

By Aimee Hansen

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Tiffany Fleming: Vice President, Client Onboarding & Trading Documentation, PGIM Fixed Income

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Tiffany Fleming“As leaders, we have to be willing to hear some difficult things and have better self-awareness, which isn’t always easy,” says Tiffany Fleming. “If we do, we can become better leaders by being open-minded to making changes based on what people are telling us. This has enabled me to take pride in the leader that I’ve become.”

Following in Her Mother’s Footsteps

Prudential runs in Fleming’s family. Growing up, Fleming’s mother worked for Prudential while raising three children as a single mom. Fleming dreamed to follow in her mother’s footsteps but wanted to pave her own way by earning a job based on her own merit.

At a career fair at 16-years old, Fleming omitted her mother’s name from her Prudential application and accepted a position in Human Resources as part of a co-op program where she worked after school. Looking back, Fleming smiles when remembering her mother’s excitement, which turned to frustration, when she found out she would not be receiving the employee referral benefits.

After graduating from college and holding various positions within Human Resources, Fleming accepted a full-time position with the Prudential Mutual Fund Investment Management department (now PGIM Fixed Income), after she became the first person in her family to graduate from college.

From Self-Criticism to Self-Encouragement

“Throughout my 33-year tenure at Prudential, I’ve held different roles that have helped me identify my strengths and areas of improvement,” she says. “We all have areas that we feel comfortable and confident in – where we’re on our A game – as well as those areas where we’re not.”

Stepping into those areas has been tricky. Especially once Fleming was asked to take on a new role, with a new manager, after working for the same one for most of her career. In this role, she was given the opportunity to take on a stretch assignment, working with the COO of Fixed Income, doing management fee work, which she thought was totally outside of her wheelhouse.

She went in feeling worried about failing. Months later, when asked if she thought she did a good job, Fleming responded that the assignment didn’t represent her best work. She was asked who told her this, and it was then she realized that the expectations that she placed on herself weren’t always what others expected.

“Even when he told me I did a really good job, I still didn’t feel like I did. However, I must have done a good job because I ended up getting promoted shortly thereafter,” she reflects. “I’ve learned that sometimes the expectations I have for myself are not the expectations others have for me, and I need to embrace that more.”

Fleming admits that sometimes she still puts too much pressure on herself and used to turn to her mom for reassurance and guidance before losing her to breast cancer when she was just 30-years old.

“My mother played a really big role in my life, giving me positive reassurance and building up my confidence. She always acknowledged when I did a good job and that she was proud of me,” she recalls.

Since her mother’s passing, Fleming has worked on reprograming herself to find that voice of self-confidence from within. “When I do find it, it tells me that I can do anything I put my mind to, which is exactly what I always tell my four daughters.”

From Productivity-Focused to People-Focused

As a leader, Fleming is empathetic and encourages the people around her – but it wasn’t always that way. In her early years of leadership, she was so tough that she found out her team nicknamed her, “the warden.”

“When I first started at PGIM, I was very demanding. I was all about getting the work done by all means necessary, and I didn’t think much about the people aspect,” she says. “I had blinders on. I was tunnel-focused on the results I could generate and how much I could do.” It was not until one of her direct reports gave her feedback that they did not feel seen or appreciated that she took the time to reflect, becoming more aware, which ultimately contributed to a change in her management style.

“This feedback made me realize that I was not the type of leader that I wanted to be. It made me realize that you’re only as good as the people that you work with and for,” she says. “I didn’t put the same focus on people as I placed on getting the work done. I wasn’t very aware of how I made other people – the ones I interacted with daily – feel. It takes teamwork, collaboration and partnership – without those things, you can’t get much done.”

The other catalyst in softening her leadership approach was becoming a mother. She notes that even her Myers Briggs personality test results, before and after motherhood, are like night and day.

“Becoming a mom was a life-changing event that required me to step back and really look at myself. It changed how I viewed work, the world and life in general,” she says. “Today, I ask how I can be a better manager, provide opportunities, coach and develop my team. People first. Work, second. When people feel supported by their managers, it tends to increase how fulfilled they are by the work they’re doing.”

Looking back, Fleming’s biggest regret is that she did not realize sooner how important it is to support people – but now it is her passion. When she moved into a new role in 2020, she didn’t realize how much her team enjoyed working with her. In fact, many members of her team mourned her departure – a testament to her growth as a leader.

Champion of Inclusivity

Fleming never appreciated how much being a Black woman in a senior leadership role inspires others. To her, it was where she was always headed.

“Although My mom would encourage me to do a good job and work hard, she didn’t stress that I had to work harder or differently than others to be recognized, rewarded and valued. She taught me to be a good, caring and kind person to get ahead, so, I didn’t have the awareness that I think others did.” Fleming added, “It was much later that I started to realize the subtleties of being a woman – and being a Black woman – and how, in some cases, I would feel excluded, not considered or given the same opportunities as my peers.”

With Diversity, Equity and Inclusion (DEI) continuing to increase in importance and visibility, Fleming has made it her mission to lead with a “people-first” mindset that is inclusive of all backgrounds when growing talent. “There are so many areas of diversity that I’m continuing to learn about. My children are teaching me things about diversity that I had not been exposed to,” she says. “I’m so motivated by feeling like I am a part of something bigger than myself, and it’s important that others have the opportunity to share that same feeling – the feeling of being part of the team.”

Currently, Fleming is a member of the Culture Council, in which she was a founder and co-head, a sponsor of PGIM Fixed Income’s Black Professional Alliance affinity group and a member of the Black Executive Leadership team at PGIM Fixed Income. In addition, she is proud to serve as an ally to other affinity groups. “I’m an ally of every walk of life. I enjoy meeting new people, learning about different cultures and forming connections about how much we have in common.”

Stretching Her Comfort Zone – Again

In January 2020, Fleming decided to step out of her comfort zone again. She accepted a role in Client Onboarding after having spent more than 25 years in Operations.

“I kept saying, ‘Why would I do this to myself? I have another eight to ten years before I retire. Why would I take on a new role, possibly not do well and risk my reputation that has taken so long to build?’” she says. “My husband said to me, ‘Why wouldn’t you?’”

It was then she realized that this role, although challenging and outside of her wheelhouse, would enable her to learn and grow. “I can’t be someone who preaches to my kids about how you can do anything if you put your mind to it, work hard and take chances, and that the worst that can happen is it doesn’t work out. How could I not take my own advice?” she says.

So, Fleming took the plunge, taking on a new role right before the pandemic hit. More than three years later, she is still judging herself for being out of her comfort zone: feeling like she always has more to learn and is not performing at her true best. Yet, she is getting the same feedback that she is doing great. She has a supportive manager and is encouraged that her team members admire how easy she makes it look to excel in her role while juggling her husband, three younger children (who are highly involved in high school athletics), grandchildren and her 80-pound super doodle, Oreo, who is the love of her life.

“I’ve realized that others look to me as an inspiration, and I have that influence,” she says. “If they see that they too can be successful as a mom, a wife and a grandmother, it makes me feel good. I am learning not to downplay my capabilities or others.”

Not Counting Herself – Or Others – Out

One of Fleming’s daughters taught her a lesson in not underestimating yourself or others. Recently, at a track meet, Fleming assumed her daughter wouldn’t make it to the finals, although she did not share this with her. After all, she was up against a lot of girls who were much older than her and had faster times –they were stiff competition. However, her daughter defied Fleming’s expectations, and not only made it to the finals, but took home bronze and won a school grant. This taught Fleming that all things are possible with hard work and when you believe in yourself.

“I tell my children not to count themselves out, so how could I?” she reflects. “I need to remember how strong that voice that I dig deep inside of me is – that voice that empowers me to accomplish my goals is the same one I am teaching my daughters to use to accomplish theirs.”

By Aimee Hansen

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Truth Check-In: Is Your DEI Performative or Genuine?

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performative DEI Too many leaders and organizations aren’t making it over the basic hurdles of credibility when it comes to employee well-being policies and DEI policies: that people believe what you say is truthful and that you’re committed to act in the ways you say.

Indeed, the Women in The Workplace 2021 report found that while 70% of companies say DEI is critical, only 25% of them are formally recognizing the work. Only 2/3 are holding senior leaders accountable, less than 1/3 hold managers accountable and even when it’s claimed leaders are held accountable, diversity goals make it into performance reviews less than half of the time.

Other research has shown that leaders are nearly twice as likely as their employees to perceive they are creating empowering and inclusive environments. And a Korn Ferry study of 24,000 leadership assessments revealed that only 5% of leaders globally would qualify as inclusive leaders. And while U.S. organizations pledged to spend up to $60 billion on racial equity initiatives, one year later only $250 million had been committed to specific initiatives.

In short: DEI words are not aligning to perceptions and in many cases, actions.

Are Organizations Being Performative or Genuine?

In a study of 7,000 people across 14 countries, Catalyst found that employees are more likely to perceive the Covid-19 and racial equity polices of their organizations in the last couple years to be merely performative.

More than 2/3 of employees feel their organization’s pandemic-related policies for care and safety were not genuine and 3/4 of employees feel their organization’s racial equity policies are not genuine. Employees from marginalized racial and ethnic groups were even less likely to view the latter as genuine (23%) than white employees (29%).

Here’s some ways organizations come across as non-genuine: talk without action, virtue signaling in social media or staff e-mails without visible follow-through, announcing plans such as training that don’t get implemented, over-claiming advances from minor policy updates, pledging funds that don’t get invested, putting new DEI positions in place without empowering these individuals with decision-making and resource, making big one-off claims while ignoring daily incidents of bias and exclusion, allowing remote work without being flexible for caretaking needs, and talking about burnout without doing anything to counter unmanageable workloads or 24/7 “on” culture.

Are companies failing to communicate or failing to convert talk into real steps of change? Based on Catalyst’s analysis, most organizational behavior around DEI is perceived as insincere – which can ultimately lead to people questioning the moral character, ethics and overall values of the organization; erode trust in leaders and the organization; and decrease team performance and productivity. Candidates also prefer to work for organizations that are perceived as having high moral character.

Is Pushing the Business Case Rationale Helping?

Meanwhile, in Harvard Business Review, Oriane Georgac and Aneeta Rattan reveal that how the majority (80%) of Fortune 500 companies explain their interest in diversity – through the business case of benefitting the bottom line – actually puts off candidates, and creates a 6% drop in feeling the commitment to diversity is genuine.

The researchers found about 80% of companies use the business case, 5% use the fariness/moral case, and 15% do not explain why they value diversity or do not list it as a value.

The business case is most off-putting to job candidates. Underrepresented participants exposed to a job posting that provided a business case explanation for valuing diversity anticipated to experience less sense of belonging (11% vs fairness explanation; 27% vs neutral message), were more concerned about being stereotyped (16% vs fairness; 27% vs neutral) and were more concerned they would be seen as interchangeable with members of their identity group (10% vs fairness; 21% vs neutral).

The researchers argue the business case backfires because it subtly positions ‘diverse’ employees as a means to an end, rather than valued in themselves as individuals. In that equation, the “benefits” that diversity provides – different skills, perspectives, experiences, working styles – could make candidates feel they will be depersonalized and stereotyped, as opposed to seen for who they are.

The researchers found the fairness case (which sees diversity as its own end) made people feel more positive about organizations than the business case, halving the negative impact. But the best approach was to express diversity was a value without explaining the why: “If you don’t need an explanation for the presence of well-represented groups in the workplace beyond their expertise, then you don’t need a justification for the presence of underrepresented groups either.”

The researchers argue that when something is truly a core value (such as innovation or integrity), you don’t try to convince others why. Why an organization should value integrity, for example, is not up for discussion. So why does diversity require a justification, or convincing?

Empathetic Leadership And Genuine Action

Going back to the Catalyst work, truly genuine policies “are aligned with the stated values of the organization, motivated by care and concern for employees, and thoughtfully implemented.”

Organizations show they are genuine by: taking a stand both externally and internally, admitting bias and being transparent (including data) about the organization’s current diversity and inclusion, providing safe spaces for employees to report feeling psychologically unsafe, taking actual steps to remove bias, empowering employees to create resource groups, taking visible steps to diversify senior leadership, being consistent in communication and actions around DEI, treating everyone with respect, celebrating cultural heritage and bringing DEI experts on board.

The employees who actually do perceive their organization’s policies as genuine (whether Covid-related or racial equity) experience many benefits: more inclusion, engagement, feelings of respect and value for their life circumstances, ability to balance life-work demands, and intention to stay with their jobs.

Further, perceiving empathy in senior leaders is a key determinant to whether policies are perceived positively and sincerely. An empathetic leader “demonstrates care, concern and understanding for employees’ life circumstances.”

When a leader authentically “gets it” from an intrinsic standpoint, they are more likely to commit: previous research by Harvard Business Review Analytics found that among companies who are “DEI Laggard,” 50% of people feel a lack of leadership commitment hinders their DEI efforts. Whereas “DEI Leader” organizations are more than twice as likely as Laggards (77% vs. 34%) to have visible executive support.

Catalyst found employees who perceive both empathetic leaders and genuine Covid policies have less burnout than others (about 30% less). Among employees of color, the combination of genuine policies and empathetic leaders increases inclusion – and there is a general halo effect on women feeling more respected, valued and engaged, too.

The Call To Interconnected Leadership

Research has shown that “the ability of a leader to be empathetic and compassionate has the greatest impact on organizational profitability and productivity.” The research from HBR Analytics indicates that DEI Leaders have two clear things in common: “a commitment from leadership and a commitment to data.” Indeed, the most important factors in creating a culture of inclusion are leadership commitment and demonstrating a visible awareness of the bias within oneself and the organization.

Empathy is a distinct component of emotional intelligence, which becomes increasingly important with seniority in leadership: at executive level, emotional intelligence accounts for 80% to 90% of the abilities that distinguish high performers. An empathetic leader can also own fallibility and personal and organizational susceptibility to systemic realities like institutional racism and sexism, and rise to that challenge.

Catalyst found that having a highly empathetic leadership (versus less empathetic leadership) makes a huge difference in an employee feeling regularly innovative at work (61% vs 13%), feeling engaged at work (76% vs 32%), feeling included (50% vs 17%), feeling able to navigate work/life demands (86% vs 60%), and having fewer thoughts about leaving.

The question is does leadership really “get it?” Do leaders see the reshaping of power structures to harness diversity and the inclusion of all employees as win-wins for themselves, others and the organization? Could we have more that do?

As previously shared, the late Bell Hooks said equity would require a revolution of self-actualization and any real movement of social justice would be based in the ethic of love, where we would recognize that oppression and exclusion cost too much to every single one of us, including those who benefit: “The moment we choose to love we begin to move against domination, against oppression. The moment we choose to love we begin to move towards freedom, to act in ways that liberate ourselves and others.”

Intrinsic motivation does not come from the societal or legal pressure to do something, the business case or even the fairness argument: it’s beyond all that. When more organizations start demonstrating they truly “get it,” we will not be wondering if it’s genuine.

By Aimee Hansen

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