Erica Klinkowize: CBNA Treasurer, Citi

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Erica Klinkowize“It can be intimidating in finance when you’re fresh out of college, but I would encourage anyone to not discount their own opinions or gut instincts,” says Erica Klinkowize. “It’s important to differentiate early on between this is who I am and this is who my company is.”

Klinkowize speaks to developing gut instincts, the shorter- and longer-term journeys of networking, and intensive listening.

Hone Your Personal Gut Instinct

After working a short while at Prudential Securities, then at Goldman Sachs for over a decade, moving to Bank of America for seven years, and then to Citi last summer, Klinkowize observed that she, early in her career, internalized a gut instinct that was highly influenced by organizational viewpoints.

She found herself consistently asking what would the company do? While a valuable perspective, she realized it was important to differentiate her own gut instincts as she grew as a leader, so as to discern different perspectives, including what was her own intuition.

“Something would pop up, for example, in a meeting or conversation, and I’d have a negative feeling,” says Klinkowize. “I’d often quash it or question it until I came to a rationalized conclusion or the whole thing dissolved, which is not the same as listening to your gut instinct.”

She intentionally learned, with the help of executive coaching, to develop her gut instincts, recognizing that her emotional responses are often held in her upper stomach where her ribs meet, around her solar plexus: “You should know where your emotions strike you.”

Learning to discern, trust, and develop her gut instincts has been a core component of her leadership journey: “First, you need to be able to identify it: I’m having a feeling. Then you need to name the feeling and ask yourself: What is driving that feeling and is it worthy of speaking up for? Then you ultimately need the self-confidence to speak up, be potentially willing to engage in a disagreement, and simply not question it too much. The more you question it, the more likely you are to miss the appropriate moment to say something, or to lose the feeling entirely. As you move through life, your gut instinct is one thing that stays with you, no matter what you choose.”

Enrich Your Leadership With Exposure

Her background is largely in Treasury, but Klinkowize spent over two years partnering to head up a trading desk for Global Markets at Bank of America before joining Citi and returning to Treasury.

“It’s like riding a bike coming back to Treasury, in that things don’t change that quickly, but I found that I was different,” she observes. “Every experience changes you. Every risk you take, every career move you make, each one enhances your perspective on things, provides you with moments to improve your ability to hone your gut instincts, and increases your understanding of human beings. How you respond in situations changes, and you learn to do things better for everyone around you.”

Klinkowize attributes her recent move to Citi once again to instinct. She loved her team and trading desk journey at Bank of America and the rich connections she made. But when an unexpected opportunity came, along with an interview journey full of sparks and connections, she heeded the call on what was right for her development.

Along with diversifying experiences, she takes inspiration from other leaders and mentors to catalyze her growth.

“I spend time observing the people who I feel are ‘ahead of me’ in a way that I feel matters, and I ask myself what are they really good at – I watch people in meetings, noticing mannerisms, how they sit, how they dress, the speed and cadence of speech, the way they organize a deck or argument. I also note what characteristics I would not want to adopt,” she reflects. “That practice has helped me bring out a wider breadth of traits and abilities within myself.”

Klinkowize feels a big part of her own value as a mentor is her willingness to share openly all kinds of experiences including the most challenging moments of her career, such as going through pregnancy with an unsupportive manager at a previous employer. She sees mentorships as mutually beneficial and useful for reflecting on her own growth.

“Everyone looks at people who they consider successful and thinks it was a straight shot up,” she notes. “But it’s been a very up and down experience. I’ve constantly tried to remind myself that perception is reality and ask myself what am I doing (or accepting) that I need to change, which comes back to gut instinct.”

Network Early and Broadly

While at Columbia working on her MBA, Klinkowize was given the challenge to draw her network, which turned out to be very closed relative to her fellow professional classmates.

“It didn’t really register with me until I got to business school that I needed to network beyond my group and then beyond my organization,” she admits.

A latecomer to networking, initially more comfortable with keeping her head down and doing the work, Klinkowize is now its biggest advocate. She emphasizes the importance of networking early on and broadly – beyond formal programs, beyond your company, beyond your direct area of work.

“When I look back, I saw my (performance) equivalents at Goldman getting promoted faster than I was and only later did I realize that I had done a bad job at networking,” she realizes. “I had done a bad job at those things that felt hard and that I didn’t want to do.”

Klinkowize notes that while she was well-liked, she hadn’t cultivated the professional connections who would be pounding on the table for her at promotion time. Later, she gained that level of sponsorship and really felt the difference in support and validation of having someone put their name and reputation on the line for her.

Getting over her resistance to networking required having patience with the journey: “There’s a short-term experience and a longer-term experience to doing what is hard to do (for you),” notes Klinkowize.

“I’d walk away from a networking session exhausted and needing to recuperate, yet I would have learned new things and heard relatable experiences,” she reflects. “Then, it’s like a butterfly effect. You don’t exactly know how, but every interaction you have with someone makes you feel a certain way and changes your trajectory. It can be five minutes that simply reminds you of something that you forgot about yourself, and it’s revolutionary. Or it’s the fact that you’re now top of mind with that person when the next unexpected opportunity comes up.”

“On the other side of doing the hard thing (networking), you see both how your trajectory changes,” says Klinkowize, “and how it becomes more natural to you.”

Model Presence and Perspective

Klinkowize emphasizes the importance of intensive listening: “It’s about deep breathing, calming yourself, listening and not getting caught up in the chaos or the transactional nature of things but instead sitting back and observing the whole thing.”

She feels team members look to leaders for broadness and expansiveness, and embodying yourself in a meeting as a leader sets a tone for the team in terms of moderating stress.

Klinkowize feels intensive listening also helps her hear people on many levels beyond their words, and she tries to “hear with her gut” – for example, catching that moment when someone on the team suggests an idea and she knows intuitively, that’s it.

Despite days of back-to-back meetings, Klinkowize has stopped multitasking 75% of the time, noting that while her days may take a little longer, her stress levels have plummeted.

When with her daughter, her practice is to be fully present and immersed. She has come to appreciate, and actively chooses to spend, more time outdoors, along with their dog, Ash.

By Aimee Hansen

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Pamela Peace: Principal & North America Client Management, PGIM Fixed Income

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Pamela Peace“The world is different now and leadership looks different,” says Pamela Peace, “Today anyone at any level should be afforded a trusted space to have a dialogue with their manager about the support needed to be successful.”

Peace talks about the values she holds dear, lessons learned throughout her career and how she has developed as a leader in ways that feel true to her goals, ambitions, and most importantly authentic to who she is as a person.

As a Senior Client Manager for PGIM Fixed Income, Pamela recently expanded her role as a leader within the organization, taking on responsibilities as lead manager for PGIM Fixed Income’s North America Client Management team: a role which she notes is intentionally focused on creating valuable partnerships for clients and opportunities for teammates in Fixed Income to deliver excellence in client relations.

Pamela reflects on driving change and rising above dissenting voices. “It is vital to perform well at our core duties to be viewed as credible and effective. What makes an individual a true leader? One who motivates and inspires others to perform well at their core duties, has the courage to push for change, and holds the unique ability to cultivate diverse perspectives.”

Her perspectives as Co-Chair of PGIM Fixed Income’s Culture Council highlight her commitment to amplify the organization’s cultural values.

Values She Holds Dear: Diversity of Perspectives

Having worked in fixed income and asset management for over twenty-five years, and with PGIM Fixed Income for the past seven years serving international clients in several regions of the world, Peace thrives on interacting with a range of people and cultures, from language to food. Even more, she loves experiencing the diversity of perspectives that come forth, and she learns broadly from every interaction in her job.

“We are a global organization. When we think about different investment strategies, we must consider every aspect of the world. We must take in various inputs – we must look at the world holistically, make decisions based on our analysis, clients’ expectations, what the markets are doing, geopolitical climate, regulatory, etc. These are just a few of many inputs that go into framing our decisions,” she reflects. “As a Client Manager, for a global asset management firm, I bring a wider awareness into everything I do. I believe it is core to my job and how I live in a global society.”

Peace is motivated by watching the people she leads develop uniquely in their skillsets and the legacy her commitment to talent will leave. “I’m so excited to see how the PGIM Fixed Income North America client managers, which consist of different generations, experiences, and cultures, are going to come together to bring forward new ideas for client engagement,” she says. “Our team embraces the view, ‘we can do hard things for our clients’, and if we believe we can do hard things together, that means we’re all thinking and bringing in ideas, and that’s going to be an exciting adventure.”

Lessons Learned: The Values of Humility, Constant Learning and Service

On advice for those developing their talents, she is open about her own path of development, “Trust me, I have made a lot of mistakes where I have had to say, that was not a good decision. Now, how can I actually take that and learn from it?” says Peace. “Humility allows me to understand where I am in my learning journey and acquiring more knowledge has been something I’ve had to own and develop personally.”

In her very first job at a naval base, she worked under an educator, who was a computer scientist, who imparted upon Peace that she could learn anything once you accept your ability to learn it. That woman, she noted, looked like her. Long before that, her mother, who raised eight children spanning twenty-two years as a single mom after becoming widowed, showed her the merits of hard work.

Combining those influences, Peace is a self-confessed constant learner who takes night courses to stay abreast on new topics in management and leadership. She’s presently taking courses to continue to improve on being an effective leader, as well as pondering the EMBA journey. Early on in her career, she learned there was value to admitting what you don’t know and being receptive to educational opportunities was essential – and that has stayed with her.

“I think vulnerability was important to getting me to this level in my career at PGIM, “she notes. “Also, having grace, humility, determination, and the curiosity to learn at any point in life are key attributes everyone should channel.”

She would add that being in service of others is a core value that has carried her through work and life: “My job is to serve others, and I wake each day reminding myself of that fact. In my job it is – PGIM’s clients first, the people working alongside me and those that I’m responsible for.”

In her personal time, she volunteers with aged people in underserviced areas and learns deep lessons from the elders she serves.

Lessons Learned: Leading as a Partner in Growth

A few years back, Peace had the experience of leading the London team and realized a lot about adjusting her communication and leadership style. Through that experience, she recognized the value of “meeting individuals where they are” to take them where you see they can go. This required adjusting her approach as a leader. When it comes to supporting her team now, Peace seeks to collaborate with those she leads on their development goals.

“The discussions I have with the individuals that work with me directly are very much: I am your advocate. I am your support. Let’s talk about what you need and where I think you need to grow. Then we’ll work together,” she says. “It’s an intellectual dialogue about development and being a partner and advocate in the space. It’s more of a leadership of equals as opposed to that of a hierarchy. Let’s come along as a partnership, and we’ll both get there and grow together.”

Every year in the annual reviews, Peace asks her direct reports to tell her one thing they want to learn or develop during that year, and she helps make that happen.

“They are accountable and feel as though they have ownership of their careers and development,” says Peace. “I’m there as a guide, support, and bumper when needed. That’s a valuable leadership skill that has worked for me.”

Not only does she see her own role as being supportive, but at this stage in her journey, Peace sees it as important to communicate to her own bosses what support she is going to need from them to be successful. Having the direct conversation cemented their willingness to commit that support.

“It’s important to be able to trust and communicate to your leaders: here’s what I need from you and what I need you to help me with,” she says. “That has made the difference for me in my career. And that is not wisdom that one must wait until they are well into their careers to acquire anymore. Remember, what I said at the outset of this interview, the world is different now, and leadership looks different.”

Both parties must agree and hold each other accountable but creating the space to have the conversation matters: “I know, it is a hard thing for some people to understand and accept – I must trust you enough to say, here’s what I’m looking for and here’s what I need. As managers, we must work to create the space for trust, and be ready to receive and act on the needs request.”

Developing as a Leader: Promoting Inclusion and Inspiring Women

Peace wants her team members to feel she brings positivity, openness, inclusivity, and a space of trust, where they can bring their best talents forward.

Inviting inclusion daily might mean giving people, who do not always get the opportunity to speak up on a call, a direct invitation to share their opinion or to lead a discussion. It is also being interested in her team as individuals outside of work. As Co-Chair of the PGIM Fixed Income Culture Council, she’s responsible for executing the values of the organization and creating a safe and inclusive environment built on collegiality, trust, and an unwavering commitment to clients among other positive attributes.

“Part of my responsibility, as a Co-Chair, is to model those values,” says Peace, “which includes bringing together our differences. Valuing people with different backgrounds and different skills to create diversity of thought to execute our mission, which often involves making a lot of subtle connections.”

Going back to her early career before PGIM, Peace lived the experiences, as a black woman, of being the “background individual,” there but not getting the opportunities, not receiving the speaking role, being trivialized. “Having had these experiences, I can say to young women who are coming into their careers, including my own daughter, you don’t have to take it. You do not have to shrink to the biases or comments that make you feel less than – change the norm and the direction of conversation,” she states. “Challenge the behavior appropriately – Ask the question, what does that really mean? Express when you’re offended and why, be prepared to have the conversation, receive the apology and extend grace if appropriate.”

She notes that she usually gives the benefit of the doubt and in most cases, believes there is value in having the hard conversations, because those questions often expose blind spots and lead to achieving a wider, more compassionate understanding of other’s lived experiences.

Developing as a Leader: Embracing Who You Are as a Person and Professional

Taking up distance running after age 40, Peace has completed four marathons and several half-marathons, and considers running outdoors to be spiritual.

Growing up in the middle of eight children gave her early life lessons in responsibility, navigating different personalities, taking care of each other, collaborating and valuing family – including her husband, adult son, and daughter.

She’s animated by new food, great wine with friends, the house she and her husband are remodeling, and she loves to dance. Peace recently cherished a holiday moment of karaoke and dancing with her daughter for the first time since her daughter was a child: “She is definitely smarter and has more rhythm, and that’s okay with me.”

It’s Pamela Peace’s lived experiences both inside and outside of work that define her as a leader and more precisely as someone who motivates and inspires those around her each day in service of PGIM’s clients.

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Geline Midouin: Chief People Officer, Shearman & Sterling LLP

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“As you arrive to a real senior level, you will start to understand that people are going to have a hard time disagreeing with you. They tend to give you filtered information,” advises Geline Midouin. “If you know that, you can be much more deliberate and intentional in terms of how you ask questions, to make sure that you’re getting the real story and understanding different perspectives.”

While energetically pacing at her standing desk, where she prefers to work in the mornings, Midouin talks to valuable lessons she’s learned at entry, mid-level and executive level positions in her journey – and the excitement of sitting in a people-oriented seat amidst the talent and inclusion challenges of today.

Joy of Purpose

Born in Haiti, Midouin came to the U.S. at three years old. Her Caribbean family consisted of doctors, nurses and medical professionals, so when Midouin shared she was going to pursue a liberal arts bachelor’s degree in psychology, her mother asked her how she was going to eat. Her family believed getting an education was about job security and thought obtaining a non-tangible degree wouldn’t help.

With a master’s in Organizational Behavior from Teachers College at Columbia University and having held several leadership positions across industries in the field of people and talent – from consulting to broadcast media to healthcare advertising to big law – Midouin feels inherent joy in how she approaches her work.

“I have a sense of purpose in really helping people to bring out the best in themselves to serve the greater good, whether it’s business, our clients or our community,” she says. “I’m motivated by purpose and doing something beyond myself to create a legacy.”

Midouin has always been curious by what motivates people and why they do things – and she loves driving impact and innovation, which catalyzed her move into Big Law a year ago with Shearman & Sterling, in the new post of Chief People Officer. In this position, she’s charged with having an umbrella oversight and influence on all people-related functions at the firm.

An avid reader, she is a curious thinker who draws inspiration from many places to look at issues from different lenses. She emphasizes that in today’s shifting world, it’s important to stay curious: “I ask a lot of questions. I don’t want to hear ‘I can’t’ from my team, but rather I want us to ask, ‘well, why can’t we?’”

“We’re moving away from managing structures and instead focusing on helping people manage their expertise and their careers, so they grow both personally and professionally,” says Midouin. “How can we not just provide information, but actually engage people and then measure the things we’re doing in terms of impact, so we can prioritize?”

Part of Midouin’s mission is to continue to thread diversity and inclusion through the firm’s culture: “Like the head of the orchestra, you’re able to see how things work from a more holistic view. That becomes a secret sauce in working in a more inclusive way,” she says. “You have to integrate inclusion through recruitment and professional development, so having it under one umbrella enables me to bring the key people to the table to have the right conversations and access to resources, to work in a more cohesive manner and make changes that move the needle.”

Early On: The Confidence To Speak and Go For It

Having been the only woman and/or person of color in the room often, Midouin has learned to not be intimidated by the perception from the room that she speaks for all black women or people of color (which she notes is impossible as not all individuals of any group think the same).

“I’m one person with one point of view. So I’ve had to make sure, whether I’m the only woman or only person of color, that I’m comfortable with myself so that I can share my authentic voice,” says Midouin. “You don’t want to waste that opportunity to speak, and you also want to make sure that you share a point of view that reflects authentically who you are.”

Midouin calls her confidence to speak up a learned behavior, as very early in her career she had a critical moment where she diminished her own voice. Two weeks into a new company as a junior employee, she walked into a meeting and the CEO asked what she thought. Taken aback, she caveated her response because she was new, and he replied that he asked her because he wanted a fresh perspective.

“I never did that again because I was questioning my right to give an opinion,” she reflects. “If you’re in a meeting, you’ve earned your right to be there. People are bringing you there for a reason and they want to know your opinion. And people may disagree with you too, and that’s okay, as that’s part of what gets you to a variety of views at the table.”

Noting that we often learn the most through mistakes, Midouin also recalls hesitating to go for a position because she lacked a couple of the qualifications, while watching a male colleague who possessed only a couple of them go for it. When her manager pushed her to apply, she got the position. She now realizes the “confidence gap” was at play for her.

“After I got the position, they told me it wasn’t necessarily about what I knew. It was that I asked the right questions and showed that I’d be able to figure it out,” she recalls. “Sometimes we talk ourselves out of a risk or putting ourselves out there, because we feel like we’re not good enough or that we have to be overqualified. I really encourage people to have the confidence to push themselves and take more calculated risks.”

Mid-Level: Managing People Who Are Different To You

Another key learning moment in Midouin’s earlier career was shifting from an individual contributor to a manager. The transition from being measured for your individual results to your ability to motivate the team was a wake-up call for her when a 360-degree performance review arrived: “The people who were on my team that thought more like me, loved me and my style, but the feedback from the people who were not like me was very different.”

Midouin learned that she had to pay attention to individuals and adjust her management style depending on what they needed. While she is a problem-solver who can deal with ambiguity, bring chaos to order and prefers not to be micro-managed, she realized others need structure, a more methodical agenda and more “touching base” time to flourish.

“People tend to begin by managing people how they like to be managed. You have to learn to be thoughtful and intentional about managing people that are not like you,” says Midouin. “And then, it’s not only making sure you’re hiring varied people of different styles, but also asking yourself if you are catering to all types of styles that you have on your team. Or, are the only people that are excelling, the people who are just like you?”

Executive Level: Leading with Self-Awareness

When it comes to success in the C-suite, Midouin emphasizes the value of self-awareness – including knowing what you’re good at, not good at and surrounding yourself with a team complementary to your skills.

Midouin also notes how critical it is to not surround yourself with people that only validate your viewpoint, but rather those who have the courage to disagree and give an authentic view. One time she said something intentionally ridiculous, observing that people try to be agreeable to senior figures. After no one disagreed with her, she gently chided her team with “come on.”

“I will purposely invite my team to play devil’s advocate and give me a contrary point of view, because that’s what you need in an organization. Let’s argue the opposite point of view – the one we’re not looking at,” she says. “If you’re in a team where you’re not getting dissenting points of view, you should be worried because you’ve probably hired too many people just like you and you’re looking at things in a one-dimensional way. If that is happening, ask yourself if you are creating a safe space where all people can really share their point of view, or do you need to help pull out some of the less expressed views?”

Motivating in Today’s Context

In these times when inclusion is in demand, and the Great Resignation has led to talent wars, it’s a unique moment to be in Midouin’s seat, with an increasing focus on retention and reducing turnover.

“The biggest difference is about motivation – historically you’ve competed against other organizations and now you’re competing against ideology and alternate careers and lifestyles and priorities. Because of the pandemic, people are rethinking what place work should have in their lives. Then you have generational shifts too,” she says. “Now we have to think about how to attract and retain a workforce that wants something different. What is that difference? How does that fit with your employee value proposition? And how do you shift that?”

As one example of alternative approaches, Midouin notes how Shearman & Sterling is leveraging its alumni as recruitment ambassadors, as research shows that when you hire people through a referral, they tend to stay longer than other types of hiring. Therefore, the recruitment strategy is already incorporating a consideration of retention. In addition to a direct payment, alumni also have the opportunity to gift their referral to one of a dozen charities.

Giving Back Where It’s Needed

Midouin’s family passion is tennis. In order to teach her youngest son, who is on the autism spectrum, tennis, she and her husband were driving 1.5 hours to Queens, NY to have him participate in Aceing Autism, a program that uses the Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) method to teach tennis to children on the spectrum. When Midouin discovered that New Jersey, where she lives, had the highest per capita representation of autism, she and her husband introduced a six-week clinic through the tennis club in their local community, which they run twice per year. Midouin is also on the board of directors for MJHS, one of the largest not-for-profit health systems in the region.

“It’s about impact, and how do you leave the world a better place?” she says. “Finding a way to give back is actually more pleasurable for me.”

By Aimee Hansen

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Mariah Turner: Associate, PGIM Private Capital

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Mariah Turner“If it’s always the loudest voiced people who are taking up space, some of the more insightful opinions get lost,” says Mariah Turner. “I like to think that I’m someone that tries to champion the softer voices in the room.”

Turner speaks to showing up in a room and the community, as both a team player and a leader who amplifies the voices around her.

Finding Balance Within Finance

Having grown up with a father in finance, an economics degree from Harvard University, and a couple of consultative internships under her belt, Turner sought a position in investment management right out of college. More than three years ago, after a year and a half at Allstate, she joined PGIM Private Capital (PPC) and transferred from Chicago to the London office last year.

Initially drawn to sociology out of a fascination for how and why people think and behave the way they do, Turner combined her interest in human behavior with her attraction to finance. She enjoys considering why people make economic decisions and what factors influence the choices they make ̶— a valuable perspective when assessing investment prospects.

“I’m definitely someone who is intellectually curious, and in this industry, every day is different,” says Turner. “There are new challenges and discoveries with each transaction and type of company you’re evaluating. This keeps the work fresh and exciting, which motivates me to learn and do more.”

Turner notes that entering into the workforce five years ago, she knew she was looking for a balance with family and personal life – as her own parents modeled through their involvement in church, community, and after-school activities when she was growing up. “Lifestyle balance can be particularly challenging in the finance world, so what motivated me to come to PPC was knowing that I’d be in a role, in a space in finance, where I could still have that balance.”

Showing Up in a Room and For the Community

“I’ve been very fortunate in that I don’t feel that my race or gender have really been factors in my career to this point. I think it has definitely been more performance-based,” Turner notes. “I participated in speech and debate in high school, and I played sports, so I’m very used to speaking in front of people, being very direct and voicing my concerns. If I didn’t have that personality or had worked in spaces that discouraged those behaviors, maybe my experience would be different.”

Turner admits she is more wary of the possible dynamics at play around race and gender when outside of the office, in external meetings where she might not know what kind of biases are present. This means she’s more hyper-conscious of how she presents herself to get the reactions she hopes for, which could mean changing how she dresses or does her hair. Turner says, “That is something that we, as a society, are going to have to deal with on a longer-term basis.”

Turner is impressed by the leaders who walk their talk day-to-day, be it in the office or the community. “I look up to people with authenticity and passion, who convey it not just with words, but with what they do –whether it’s actively reaching out to people who are more junior, actively seeking their advice, or introducing them to committees or organizations within industries to try to broaden their vantage point.”

Nobody has role-modeled walking their talk more than Turner’s mother. As president of the school-site council, she helped Turner’s elementary school become a distinguished California school. She also began a group in the school district, whose aim was to provide support and advocate for the needs of Black parents and students. Turner observed her mom continuously play an active role in supporting the wider community, a trait she hopes to emulate.

Championing Voices and Being a Team Player

Turner would like her colleagues to see her as a compassionate leader who helps to amplify all the voices in the room.

“If I’m leading a meeting, I like to cold call on people and get a pulse for what different people are thinking, because it’s often people who are more reserved or introverted who have very deep insight,” she says.

Another way she seeks to champion differing perspectives is by having one-on-one conversations, fostering a safe space for people to share their opinions in a more private setting. From here, she can determine how to help those individuals share their thoughts in a larger space.

A rugby player while in college, Turner joined a club rugby team in London and applies the lessons she learned about teamwork from her childhood and current participation in sports.

“Everyone needs to be on the same page and playing their role, and when one person isn’t, it affects the rest of the team,” she says. “This applies to both sports and in the workplace; it is critical to have good communication and know how your actions affect others. In those times when you aren’t feeling your best, I think it’s important to ask for and are willing to receive support from your teammates.”

“I also believe it’s important to be mindful of how your teammates are feeling. Actively asking how others are feeling not only makes them feel more part of the team, but also establishes a level of trust and morale that makes everyone perform better,” she says. “Being aware of how everyone else is feeling helps form a cohesive team because at the end of the day, we’re all working towards the same goal. If one person is having an off day, that’s going to impact the whole team. Knowing how to rally around and motivate that person not only helps the individual but brings the whole team closer together.”

Turner wants to be the type of leader that helps aligns individuals’ goals to the broader team and organization’s vision, enabling everyone to move ahead and progress together.

Being Strong and Giving Back

Growing up, Turner remembers hearing stories about her father’s family working as sharecroppers in Louisiana before they moved to California, her home state.

“Only two generations back, my grandmother was picking cotton in the fields and making dresses out of flour sacks. That’s a reminder the past is not as far back as we perceive it to be.”

The wisdom Turner’s grandmother imparted has influenced her perspectives, “She told me ‘whatever your husband knows how to do, you should know how to do, too.’ Her lessons in perseverance and being self-sufficient have motivated me to be independent.”

What’s in the decade ahead for Turner? She envisions herself with a family and continuing to be led by her curiosity. In Chicago, she was highly involved in volunteering, especially working with children–whether helping to provide healthy meals or reading to them–and was struck by the impact of food insecurity in her community. She now participates in community service through the Junior League of London by helping raise awareness about poverty in the city.

By Aimee Hansen

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Brandi Boatner: Manager, Digital & Advocacy Communications, IBM

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Brandi Boatner“You’ve got to remain true to yourself, because there are enough people telling you what you can’t do. I will always tell you what you can do,” Brandi Boatner tells young black women. “We’re going to make change together, but you have to be true to yourself. You have to be authentic. If you’re not, what’s the point?”

Boatner speaks to how the standards have changed for social media and social justice, owning your uniqueness as a black woman, opening the door for others and living through hard-earned resilience in New Orleans.

From People Person to PR Person

Boatner has always been a people person. Fascinated with physics, she started out as a physics pre-med major, until she realized being alone with lasers in the lab wasn’t her happy place. While she wasn’t drawn by the image of a public relations (PR) woman, Boatner was attracted to interacting with people and influencing behavior and has been enamored ever since.

“I love the work, I love the people, and using technology to impact and make the world better feeds my soul,” she says of twelve years at IBM. Boatner began when brands were just finding their footing in using social media to create awareness and drive business, and she’s been fascinated by how social media changed in the last two years as organizations had to discover how to communicate and live their values online.

“Once the pandemic happened, everyone had to shift their social strategies: it was no longer about product, but people. You had to be empathetic, sympathetic and not tone deaf to what was happening in the world,” she says. “Now you’re seeing more posts with purpose. You’re seeing the platform being used to stay in touch and informed, and to stay aligned to values.”

Brands Becoming Value Advocates

In the wake of George Floyd’s death, companies were given a wake up call to be more accountable to identifying, communicating and living their values, which also shifted her role when it comes to leading social justice communications.

“If in today’s environment, you as a brand are not sharing your values and what you believe in on social media, that’s problematic. If you are not speaking out against injustice, discrimination and bias, which we all have, that is problematic,” says Boatner. “Today, companies have to advocate not only for the brand but also for what their employees expect them to advocate for: What are your brand values? What do you stand for? What do you stand against?“

Born and raised in New Orleans, she has internalized Southern values such as approaching other with genuine friendliness, not prying on topics such as politics and religion, and looking to the brighter side for opportunity: “I say PR is the ER, because there’s always something happening. It may be easy to say ‘this is the worst thing to happen’, but I always ask, ‘what’s the lesson to be learned, what are we taking away?’ Yes, we will come to a resolution, but what can we learn and do differently?”

Elevating Social Justice and Action on DEI

Boatner is proud to have led the catalyst Emb(race) pledge, working with senior leadership, which launched on June 1st 2020, in which “IBM and IBMers stand with the Black community and call for change to ensure racial equality”- a campaign for policy change and opportunity creation “to help transform this moment of clarity into lasting change.” The effort has expanded to support other race and ethnic communities, including AAPI.

Launched in September 2020 to transform workplace dynamics, she’s been supporting key initiatives for the Transformation and Culture function, focused on growth, inclusion, innovation and feedback. The function’s mission is led by Obed Louissaint, one of her mentors and a black executive at IBM whose role became the SVP of Transformation and Culture.

“HR is a huge juggernaut,” says Boatner. “So how do you carve out a role specifically looking at organizational culture? I have the distinct pleasure to support Louissant’s team with external and social activities and help drive culture change within the company.”

Honored as a changemaker in 2021 by PRNEWS, Boatner observes 2020 brought an impossible-to-unsee reckoning: “It was time to have the uncomfortable conversations around racism and things that happen every day, like microaggressions, code-switching, as well as privilege, which I don’t see as a dirty word. I’ve been taking about D&I for a long time, but we weren’t having those conversations in this context before. People had to get comfortable with being uncomfortable to address these topics.”

In the past year or two, Boatner observes the game has moved from talk to a focus on tangible actions to drive change: “I do believe that we are making the right steps, but there’s just so much more work to be done because after 400 years, there’s a lot of areas for improvement and it’s not going to be ticking a neat checklist,” she notes.

Opening The Door For Others, Wider Yet

Since becoming the first black woman to serve as the National President of the Public Relations Student Society of America (PRSSA), Boatner has been attuned to what it means to have either the presence or absence of those who walk before you.

“I was the first one, which confused me for an organization that had existed for over forty years,” says Boatner. “At the same time, there were several black women who had led the professional society, so that told me that when I graduated, if I ever wanted to PRSA president, somebody had laid the groundwork before me. I wouldn’t have to be the first this time.”

Boatner feels representation is so important and is inspired, not dissuaded, to be the change: “Whether a lot of people look like me in Corporate America leadership, it has to start somewhere – such as talking to historically black colleges about why PR is a viable career. My attitude is when I am in a position of power, there are people to open the door for, because a bunch opened the door for me to be where I am.”

Among those who have inspired and empowered her, she includes black female executives Judith Harrison, Renetta McCann, Helen Shelton, Debra Miller, and more trailblazing women: “Let’s leave our mark, they showed me, so that’s what I am trying to do. But I’ve never wanted to be black Brandi. It’s Brandi, rockstar and badass, and she just happens to be black.”

Outside her organization, Boatner has had her moments of confronting thinly veiled racist interactions – such as having to make her position in the room clear (and it’s to speak, not get the coffee) or tolerate being handled with kid gloves (such as being presented negative news in a way that seeks to pre-empt or manage the angry black woman stereotype).

When it comes to allyship, she says you have to stop playing safe and stop sitting on the sidelines: “If you’re not an agent of change, you’re literally just a spectator. You won’t roll up your sleeves. It’s great you want to be an ally, but I would really love an accomplice – somebody who can get me into the spaces that I can’t yet get in and can change the way people think and look, because they’re already in that space.”

Being Your Authentic Whole Self, Above the Challenges

Boatner is more at home speaking to a crowd of thousands than a room of a dozen people. She wants to be seen as the Beyoncé of the business world: “I want people to be like, she is a force, she is effervescent,” she says (which she is). “But at the end of the day, I am the epitome of realness. What you see is what you get, and I’m a lot for people to take. I know I live at a twelve on a ten scale, and I’ve tried to come down to a six but that feels uncomfortable, so I decided I’m going back to twelve. That’s who I am and that’s a leadership quality.”

She also values realness and aliveness in those she works with: “I like people who work towards a common goal. I don’t want the naysayers – the we can’ts or the woulda, shoulda, coulda’s. I like people who inspire and empower.”

Boatner makes a point to reach out to black women to encourage owning their roots and raise their vision beyond the possibilities they see for themselves: “I always tell young black women that your blackness is part of your uniqueness. No one can take that from you. I feel as a race and ethnicity, we have a unique set of characteristics and traits as black women that are all our own. And that is something to be proud of and that is something to be shared and that is something to be recognized and valued. No one, I mean no one, should take that from them, including themselves,” emphasizes Boatner. “They are sometimes their own worst enemy.”

She notes that many things are and will feel stacked against you and you’re going to run into hard days, racism and bigoted people, but she urges young black women to let none of that define their possibilities.

Resilience in The Wake of Trauma

Boatner’s greatest passion in her life is her family in New Orleans, and it’s together with her family that she has faced her most difficult challenges.

Sixteen years ago, her family lost their home in Hurricane Katrina, after the roof blew off their house and they were forced to flee and hunker in the storm, salvaging ultimately only what had been stored in a fire-resistant lockbox by her father, such as her birth certificate. And just last year, and exactly sixteen years to the day of this first devastating life-changing experience, Hurricane Ida struck New Orleans and again took her grandparents family home (where her mother grew up) and flooded her mother’s hometown.

Watching in horror from New York and praying not to see her family turn up on CNN, Boatner felt helpless, triggered by the past trauma of Katrina, and desperate to get her mom to New York: “It was incredibly difficult to go through that, and if it wasn’t for my colleagues and best friends, I don’t think I would have been able to get through it. Here I am the woman always trying to make things happen, and I couldn’t do anything. It was crippling and suffocating.”

Boatner had to “dig deep” and being a mindfulness leader supported her, but she reflects it would have been easy to go down a very dark path: “Talk about resilience – my family and the citizens of New Orleans are made of tough stuff because we’ve been through something terrible, now twice.” She notes that people often want to glamorize the survivor story, but when you’ve lived it, you don’t want to relive, dramatize or be defined by it.

“I love my family, I love my Louisiana, I love my tribe,” she says, grateful today that despite the impossible loss, everyone is here and well.

By Aimee Hansen

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Rachael Sansom: Managing Director, Red Havas UK

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Rachael Sansom“As a leader, teams take their cues from you. Everybody has different styles, but people have to feel some sort of essence from you,” says Rachael Sansom. “And in the agency business, that’s also true in terms of the client relationship.”

Sansom speaks to creativity, why Gen Z inspires her, the value of your essential energies and reconnecting to gut instinct.

Motivated By Creativity

With an intrapraneurial mindset, Sansom stepped in to manage the public relations (PR) agency Red Havas in London, when it opened as part of the global network.

“I’m in the game for the love of the people,” says Sansom, who feels working from home has underlined how much this means to her. “Agencies are creative working environments. I’m incredibly privileged to be working with really talented and fabulous people, with strong points of view.”

While managing business and growth, creativity is the core of her personal motivation. The most satisfying part of her work is participating in team brainstorming sessions to ponder creative solutions to difficult business questions: “Creativity can come from anywhere and it can mean different things. It can be creating a campaign. You can be creative in how you manage a client or how you create opportunities for people.”

Sansom notes that the multiple industry award-winning NHS Blood and Transfusion Service’s ‘Missing Type’ campaign, – in which 1,000 organizations removed the A, O and B from their signage and social media branding to bring attention to the ‘missing types’ of donated blood – was catalyzed by the two most junior people on the team.

Inspired by Generation Z

Sansom finds it inspiring that many of the Gen Z junior coworkers have creative outlets and creative side hustles, away from their day jobs, such as designing mobile phone covers. If they’re starting this early, she feels creativity will continue to be a guiding thread through their lives.

She observes her Gen Z team members do not have the same conditioning as Gen Xers, but instead she sees a healthier notion of living in all directions: “They want to look at life in a 360-degree way – they want to work, have a side hustle, do other stuff, travel. Not only is their creativity and entrepreneurship refreshing, but they are also redefining work, relationships and sexuality.”

“I truly think it’s going to be a fundamental generational shift in the dynamics of society,” continues Sansom. “And an interesting challenge for our generation is how can we present ourselves as relevant enough? We have a lot of experience and knowledge, but how do we combine that with what Gen Z is bringing to make something special?”

Showing Respect and Self-Compassion

Sansom feels her moral compass for fairness has been a constant and has built her reputation in both the companies she’s worked in and the market: “I’m very much business is business, but there is no reason why you don’t treat everybody – down to the most junior person – with the same kindness and respect.”

She recommends to be aware not only of the reputation you’re creating through your achievements but also your manner of being, which ultimately becomes credit in the bank with others. She also recommends doing the best you can do while also being realist enough to go easy on yourself when things don’t work.

“You’re not going to be able to win every time, you don’t have to change the world every time, and sometimes things are just what they are,” says Sansom. “So it’s important for people coming up to do their best, and to know if it occasionally doesn’t go how you want, you’re probably still going to be winning 80% of the time.”

Channeling Your Energy As a Leader

Sansom has often been complimented on her bubbly energy and enthusiasm: “I work in an agency. It isn’t an easy business, and you can’t underestimate how much energy is important if you’re trying to bring a team together.”

Sansom is reluctant to admit that men in the workplace can at times, whether consciously or unconsciously, seem to dampen or discredit the energy women bring to the table. She’s definitely had the experience of being told she’s too emotional, which seeded self-doubt in the past.

“The biggest thing you can do to be successful is to be yourself and not listen to the detractors. Just let your light shine.” She confesses her own energy could be considered a bit of the “disco is about to start” in spirit – which absolutely has been a boon and a resource to draw on.

“I’ve become more conscious of my own energy as I’ve become older, and that it’s always flowing in me, but you can also learn to use it and channel it,” Sansom says. “If I’ve got to get a team going, I really think about bringing that energy to the table.”

Similar to the Learning & Development field, PR is full of women at entry level but then dominated by men at leadership level. Sansom feels the industry has a long way to go in valuing the differences in women’s more collaborative approaches to business (more focused on connection than securing transactional benefits), as well as accommodating their total responsibilities, since women often remain the primary caretakers.

Being Inspired to The Next Level

One of her “North Star” mentors, Sally Costerton, (who at that time was CEO and Chairman, EMEA of Hill & Knowlton) succeeded in a very male-dominated environment with major power figures and passed onto Sansom the playbook on how to dissect issues and problems. This insight has helped her overcome obstacles and focus on long-term planning.

“Having a mentor that inspires you, and to a certain extent protects you, will help you get to the next level, even if they’re outside of your organization,” says Sansom. “They will help give you the skills that will up your game and that is absolutely key.”

The leaders that truly inspire Sansom have the human touch: “they are as approachable to the most junior person in the organization as the most senior, and mindful of all of their people. They are thinking about how do we inspire someone at junior level? How do we draw the pipeline through, in terms of people, all the way to the top?”

She also values down-to-earth pragmatism and a genuine supportive approach in backing the team in taking risks, which is a quality she feels is essential to enabling creativity – “the freedom to make mistakes”.

Reconnecting with Gut Instinct

Though it’s not the message she feels she received, Sansom would advise more junior women who want to start a family that it’s absolutely okay to take time out with your kids because you only get that opportunity once.

“Don’t compromise what you want from a family for the sake of your career,” says Sansom. “We need to remember our job is there to fuel our life. It shouldn’t be your life itself. It’s going to be fine it you stop for a bit, if that’s what you want to do, and you will be able to come back.”

Recently Sansom has been reading philosopher Alain de Botton, which to her own amazement, has helped her reconnect with her gut instinct and her own boundaries.

“I used to lead more from my gut instinct, but being in a more male-oriented industry knocked some of that out of me, and I learned to trust my gut instincts less. I trained myself to be more rational than I was emotional,” reflects Sansom. “What reading his philosophy has done for me has made me understand that so much of my gut feeling is right, and I should go back to relying on it more, because at this point, my gut feeling is also being fueled by 25 years of experience.”

Amidst the chaos and trauma of the pandemic, Sansom also feels more people have come to the heart of the matter in their lives. She has taken to wild water swimming, loves art galleries and enjoys beautifying her home – and speculates her own creative side hustle (à la Gen Z) would be renovating old houses with recycled materials.

By Aimee Hansen

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Jessica Titlebaum Darmoni: Senior Manager, Head of Marketing, ErisX

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“You should always ask for more when you’re talking about salary,” advises Jessica Titlebaum Darmoni. “You want to demonstrate that you are willing to negotiate for the best rate, for yourself and for them.”

Darmoni speaks to self-educating herself on derivatives, the value of finding your culture match and why asking for more is an astute move.

From Creative Writing to Listed Derivatives to Crypto

Darmoni is a true self-taught financial professional.

After graduating from the University of Maryland with an English-Creative Writing degree, and a backpacking tour of Southeast Asia, she entered into the niche market of listed derivatives. Her CV was picked up online for a marketing role at a technology consulting company. Without knowing much about derivatives or having any industry connections, Darmoni found herself inside an exclusive corner of finance.

At that time, she began reading an industry newsletter published by a journalist/broker John Lothian to learn more about the listed derivatives space. After asking for an internship and working part time for John Lothian News, she went on to become the Head of Sales. Concurrently, thanks to a lot of networking for her role, she was also writing and interviewing for theglasshammer.com from near its inception and for over a decade. She credits a lot of what she has learned to John Lothian as well as The Glass Hammer founder Nicki Gilmour.

She continued to read the Financial Times, thanks to a three year gifted subscription, and has now read the analog paper for sixteen years on a daily basis. She also went back to school for a Masters in Journalism and grew her network in the derivatives space. One of her mentors Karen Wuertz gave her a career-changing piece of advice: get involved with an industry activity.

In 2009, along with her co-founder Leslie Sutphen, Darmoni created the non-for-profit networking organization Women In Listed Derivatives (WILD). At over 1200 women strong, the organization promotes networking and relationship-building among women in derivatives through social, educational and mentoring events.

Reframing the Salary Negotiation

“One of the things WILD taught me was that you should always ask for more in salary negotiations,” recommends Darmoni, who never used to realize how important it was to do so. “In fact, companies could almost expect it, because if you’re on the other side and working for the company, they want you to get them the best deal and ask for the best price. So you want to show that you are willing to negotiate, for yourself and for them.”

She credits a WILD mentor Pat Lunkes for teaching her that when you reframe the salary discussion as part of the interview, it’s not a risk to ask for more but rather a risk not to. Braving the conversation provides another opportunity to qualify yourself and set a tone around your value.

Hearing The Feedback That is Hard To Hear

Darmoni has come to value receiving the feedback that can be hard to hear. She finds even soliciting feedback by asking “why the no” can be very constructive and valuable.

“I used to hate feedback, but I think feedback and constructive criticism is so important. You may have really good intentions and just not know you’re doing something that isn’t working for you,” she says. “The feedback may be really hard to hear and digest, but sometimes it comes from a great place. Even if you may not agree, it’s good to hear it.”

Darmoni provides the personal example of being highly responsive to communication as a matter of practice. It would have been her habit to reply to a message as soon as possible, acknowledge receiving it and promise to come back with a response if she didn’t yet have one, to feel she had closed the loop. Her direct boss challenged her to break this habit and give pause before responding at all.

Now, rather than respond immediately, she steps back and responds only when she has reflected and is ready. Not only does this give her spaciousness for more thought, it shifts her value equation to her insight and expertise, rather than her availability, and helps her clarify her thinking because she’s not focused on just being responsive.

Finding Your Own Cultural Fit

Looking back on her career path, Darmoni stayed in one position for only eight months, when the cultural mismatch was both clear and painful. She emphasizes not to see a poor fit as a missed mark in your journey, but as guidance along the way.

“One of my career goals is to be a Commissioner at the Commodity Futures Trading Commission and I was working for a related regulatory agency. At the time, it felt like such a failure, and I was really disappointed that it didn’t work out,” she recalls. “Now I’m actually very proud of my time there. I think everybody has something on their resume that just didn’t work out the way they thought it would. I went on to find the cultures that I did fit in with.”

While it took getting past the feelings of wanting it to work, Darmoni is glad for the contrast of experiencing a culture she did not thrive in: “I know the dynamic of a team and how important that is, and I’m so grateful for where I am now.”

Shaping a New Asset Class

Darmoni currently works at ErisX, a U.S. based exchange and clearinghouse for crypto spot and derivatives markets. With her current focus on crypto, Darmoni enjoys helping to build a new asset class from the ground up: “Things are still shaking out. The leaders and players are still being developed, and we don’t yet know for certain what the major plays will be.”

As a way to explain Bitcoin, she cites the comparison between gold and Bitcoin as digital gold. Both involve mining, both are fixed in quantity and both have costs associated with mining and storing, so require hedging of risk.

With her passion for regulation, Darmoni would personally imagine there is valuable friction to come from the meeting of the established financial markets and the emerging world of unregulated crypto, though both may have to adjust how they approach the other.

She has a personal hunch that the crypto disruptors might even offer unexpected help: “My personal opinion is that decentralized initiatives may have thought-provoking solutions for problems that the established financial markets have and are working to solve.”

Darmoni admits that her 16-year self-driven love affair with finance, and especially derivatives, comes down to fascination with how much reach the market has in setting the prices of our daily lives and yet how little people know about the market itself, which makes it a powerful industry to be a part of.

The Value of Being Personally Motivated

During a Peloton ride with Robin Arzón that focused on finding your motivation within, Darmoni realized how much she resonated with being internally driven.

“I did not have a financial background so I learned mine through reading, asking questions and establishing relationships. I didn’t know a single person in finance or derivatives, whereas everybody knows everybody in my industry,” she says. “Aim to build relationships with mentors and sponsors. I’ve been lucky to have maintained great relationships with people that have helped me.”

While she used to find FT Weekend’s How To Spend It too frivolous, she admits she treated herself to a wellness retreat she found amidst its page for her 40th birthday.

This woman is even finding her vacations through her passion.

By Aimee Hansen

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Betsy Bagley: Co-Founder and Director, Pulsely

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“I want to inspire people to be more curious about the impact of things rather than just defending their intent. Because when we’re curious, we are open to hearing how different people experience the workplace and the world,” says Betsy Bagley. “If you’re not even curious about how people’s backgrounds shape their experience, you won’t be able to hear that it’s not the same for us all.”

A Family of Diverse Backgrounds

Bagley grew up in a family she affectionately calls “her parents’ collected children.” Not only did she have her three biological siblings, all who went on to become college educated, but her parents also adopted two boys out of foster care and became the guardians of four orphaned children.

While all ten children came together as one family, the impact of their different backgrounds, when it came to education and their ability to thrive, was evident to Bagley even as a girl. From the start, she learned to recognize the unique skills and strengths each individual brings, and then ask what support did they need in order to fulfill their potential.

“It enabled me to witness early on that not everybody gets the same support, which means it’s not really a level playing field. Even though we all came from the same family, we started at different places and there’s only so far the family could take us,” reflects Bagley. “That made me curious about other people’s experiences and how we create a more equitable opportunity when we bring people with different backgrounds into a workplace.”

Monitor Bias by Impact Not Intent

Across her journey, Bagley has moved from working with women and their individual challenges towards working with organizations and the systemic advantages and disadvantages that inhibit equitably supporting the success of different pools of talent.

With Catalyst, she witnessed that leaders are often quick to dismiss industry research around the business case for inclusion as too disconnected to their business. So Bagley began doing bespoke research with organizations, which was powerful in influencing leaders but expensive, resource-intensive and unscalable.

In co-founding Pulsely, Bagley has created technology-based diversity, equity and inclusion measures that are accessible, fluid and actionable for all kinds of organizations. She assesses diversity (representation within a company); inclusion (whether different demographic groups feel welcome, supported and able to be authentic in the workplace); and equity (whether different demographic groups are having similar or disparate experiences of that workplace).

When it comes to how to reframe the DEI conversation to navigate it constuctively, Bagley encourages separating intent from impact.

“What you will often hear is leaders defending their intent: ‘So are you saying that we discriminate? Are you saying that we aren’t fair?’,” she summarizes. “But the opportunity is if we can recognize that despite our best intentions, our decisions sometimes have impacts that we don’t intend. It’s important to be curious about the cumulative impacts of individual decisions, along with organizational systems and policies.”

Look For Patterns Not Decisions

A previous mentor at Catalyst imparted upon Bagley that it’s important for organizations to understand that each individual talent decision can make perfect sense and be defended, at the level of each decision. But it’s the patterns of those talent decisions that you have to look at, and that’s where you see the potential for bias.

“When the patterns of your decisions consistently favor a certain demographic group, it’s important to have conversations about that,” says Bagley. “No, it’s not our intent, and yet look at the result. And what message do people who aren’t in that majority group receive?”

One piece of research Bagley finds compelling reviewed performance appraisals in the military. When looking at the objective scoring, there was no difference between men and women’s scores; it was equitable. But in subjective descriptives, the use of adjectives was incredibly different based strictly on gender – more task-oriented for men, more relationship-oriented for women. That subjective difference matters.

“These are patterns I want to shine a light on,” says Bagley. She feels that 2020 helped to do so at a collective level, so now investors, boards and employees are holding organizations more accountable for how they manage diversity and opportunity within their workforce.

Taking the Lead on Accountability

“The organizations I experience that are creating the best opportunity for progress are where the leaders are role modeling a willingness to engage in difficult conversations and admitting where they’ve made mistakes,” notes Bagley. “It’s a different place to begin the conversation.”

She cites an example during her Catalyst consulting where women at one company revealed that the word cloud differences based on performance appraisals were all derived from reviews written by women themselves (despite their own best intentions and yes, creating different outcomes).

“Instead of trying to accuse, blame and shame others, those stories that inspire real change are where people are saying we’re all part of the problem, so we all need to be a part of the solution,” says Bagley. “Those conversations where the people leading the conversation are not there to point fingers, but to be vulnerable themselves.”

Connecting the Dots to Qualify Yourself

Early in her career, Bagley shifted between positions as she moved with her husband ’s work. So when recommended for an interview at Catalyst, she didn’t have the traditional Ivy League background, impressive titles or big roles, but she was able to demonstrate why the value she brought uniquely qualified her.

“It’s your job to connect the dots in a way that makes sense for the job that you are applying for. You don’t just throw your dots out there and expect somebody else to connect them,” says Bagley. “That makes it too hard to hire you if you’re not the natural choice. You have the opportunity to connect the dots and build the story for why you’re the best candidate.”

For Catalyst, Bagley had the advantage of receiving a competency-based interview challenge related to the job, which often is more objective than a resume and helpful in qualifying non-traditional candidates.

Furthermore, she made a point of giving an evidence-based narrative of her skills and experiences, such as being entrepreneurially minded, being successful in building business through her network, and using her analytical skills to create and implement research: “I pulled different examples from different roles and projects to demonstrate the competencies that they were looking for.”

“On the other side of the table, I also need you as an interviewee to help me to make the connections with what we’re seeking,” she advises. “It can’t be so much work for me as an interviewer to figure out whether you’re the best candidate. So don’t just show up, say here I am, and wait for me to see how right you are.”

Solutions That Work For Everyone

Bagley notes that the work-from-home environment of our times has put pressure on parents and especially mothers of school-age children, though it’s hitting fathers as well. She hopes that organizations will recognize it’s not a time of individual challenge, but a call to change how we organize work to equitably support the valuable contributions of our full team of talent – such as allowing more agile and self-determined work schedules.

Also during the pandemic, she discovered that hiking is her true happy place, with her eyes set upon a move to the Blue Ridge Mountains in the future. She can also be found escaping into a great fiction novel. Investing her energy in extended family is what most feeds her soul.

By Aimee Hansen

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Charlene Kennedy: CEO, PGIM Private Capital (Ireland)

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Charlene Kennedy“One of the key attributes of a great leader is authenticity, therefore I refuse to have separate work and home life personalities” says Charlene Kennedy. “ I believe it is time to change the message that women or indeed anyone, needs to adjust their personalities to fit with the corporate world.”

Kennedy speaks to starting out her working life as a mom, leading from authenticity and vulnerability, and holding your vision.

Going Into Her Career as a Young, Single Mom

Kennedy gave birth to her first son in her final year of law studies so being a working mom was her reality from the start: “When I think back, the image that really stands out is sitting at this desk in my little college apartment, the baby in a rocker, and me rocking the baby with my foot while working my way through big, thick law books.”

As a single mother, Kennedy completed her law licensing exams and then secured a role with PricewaterhouseCoopers in their corporate finance team where she qualified as an accountant.

Shortly before the banking crisis, she joined Bank of Scotland Ireland, and was there until the company exited the Irish market. Kennedy then reassessed where she wanted to live and moved to the north coast area of Ireland to enjoy the lifestyle and support of family while growing her own. It was there where she joined Prudential. Coinciding with the arrival of her third child, she moved into PGIM Private Capital, and became CEO of their Irish entity 18 months ago.

“It’s been an extremely challenging but also a very rewarding year. My legal background, my finance background, my banking background, every single one of those aspects I use and weave together in my day-to-day role as CEO,” says Kennedy. “Each twist and turn along the way led me to being the right person for this role at the right time.”

Why Being a Mom Enhanced Her Career

“In my early 20s, most of my peers and colleagues were out partying at the weekend. I think being a mom really focused me on my career,” reflects Kennedy. “I was either at work or studying, or I was looking after my son. I was very serious early because I had a lot of responsibility, which from a career aspect is very helpful.”

She still remembers her weekly and daily schedule, as keeping to a rhythm was important in making her full life work: “Those years built resilience. I gained an ability to deal with challenges, because I confronted so many of them early on.”

Being Led by Curiosity and Desire for Growth

“I am extremely curious. I believe that knowledge and perspective bring a deeper understanding of what you are doing and why you are doing it. The bigger picture perspective allows you to deliver over and above what your role allows and creates opportunity for you and your company,” says Kennedy.

An essential ingredient to self-development in leadership, she feels her curiosity has truly come into greater value in the C-suite, where Kennedy is constantly interpreting “what does this mean?”

Kennedy has learned to embrace that she’s wired for growth more than comfort.

“I’ve had to accept about myself, and my personality, that I always want to be involved and be moving forward,” says Kennedy. “Even when I have taken jobs that could be a Monday-Friday, 9am-5pm, which are good from a lifestyle perspective, I could not just say stop and enjoy it. I couldn’t help but to involve myself in other projects.”

She has learned to manage her own drive to intentionally balance both family and work, which calls on those boundaries she learned young. Today, she is mom to three sons, who are 18, 4 and 2.

“I come home and I put down the phone or the laptop in a corner for family time,” says Kennedy. “I block out my calendar so nobody can put meetings in when the kids are home from daycare so I have those hours exclusively with them, and then I’m open to a meeting with colleagues once they are in bed.”

Holding To Your Vision

Along with many women in her generation, Kennedy feels she was strongly influenced in her worldview by seeing Mary Robinson, a lawyer, who had studied at Trinity College in Ireland and at Harvard Law School, become the first female president of Ireland in 1990: “My mother sat me down in front of the TV during the inauguration and said, ‘If a woman can become president of this country, there is nothing in this world stopping you from being who you want to be and doing what you want to do.’”

Kennedy feels that she internalized that message as a young woman, as did many women in her generation, and it has fortified their sense of belonging to their dreams.

From early on, Kennedy learned the value of keeping your eyes set on the big picture, regardless of situational challenges. “There have been hurdles and challenges along the way, but I don’t focus on them, I focus on where it is I want to go, and the hurdles eventually fade away, and I keep moving forward.”

“That’s the resilience I built,” she says.

Being Authentic as a Woman Leader and Embracing Vulnerability

The biggest skill that Kennedy has leaned into more in her CEO position is vulnerability.

“When you come from a technical background, whether it’s on the law side or the finance side, you pride yourself on technical knowledge and knowing everything about everything,” she notes. “As you step into leadership roles, that isn’t always going to be the case. You have to learn to be comfortable with not knowing everything and turning to others for guidance.”

“I like to surround myself with people that are a lot smarter than me and people from different backgrounds and perspectives. I embrace their challenge and feedback, and actually feel quite uncomfortable in an environment where everyone agrees with me.”

Kennedy has observed that if we truly value authenticity in leadership, then we should not encourage women to fit into a corporate mold that precludes the ability to be themselves.

“I love to see people push the boundaries a little. My husband, as a joke one year, bought me a book on defiant Irish women. I loved it. I keep that book on my desk, and it reminds me that we can achieve great things. You can be professional and successful, but you can also be yourself.”

Beyond all the advice one might receive on how you need to be and how you need to act as a leader, Kennedy suggests one benchmark: “At the end of the day, when you look back, how do you feel about how you behaved as a person? If you want to be proud of what you did, the way you do that is to be true to yourself.”

Being Approachable and Team-Oriented

Kennedy’s first partner she worked for at PwC is among her most inspiring leaders—and one she would want to emulate. He was personable, down-to-earth and approachable, but extremely knowledgeable and effective in his role. Those qualities inspired the organic support and loyalty of his team.

When it comes to managing her teams, Kennedy pulls from her experience playing team sports to emphasize the team approach: “We all have our roles and we all have to equally put in our input in order to deliver on a team focus,” she notes. “We all have our responsibilities, but we all need each other. It’s never about just one person, and when someone is overly focused on only themselves, it is disruptive.”

With time, the one thing Kennedy has improved on is embracing mistakes, and knowing that one mistake does not define a career nor negate your many accomplishments. She remembers a time when a mistake would have overtaken her focus, and she’s had to learn to overcome that tendency to beat herself up.

“I’ve learned to be easier on myself throughout the years. It’s still not easy and it’s something that I have to work at. I have found ways that help me relax, such as exercising and going to reflexology on a regular basis,” says Kennedy.

Kennedy’s sons are her greatest achievements. After hiking to Everest base camp back in 2012, she loves to hike in the mountains of coastal Ireland around Donegal with her family, where she relishes the energetic high of an expanded perspective.

By Aimee Hansen

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“Be Present and Be Bold” – Advice From Nicole Pullen Ross, PWM Partner, Goldman Sachs

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Nicole Pullen Ross“For two years in my bathroom, there was a post-it on my mirror that said “Partner,” shared Nicole Pullen Ross, region head of the New York Private Wealth Management (PWM) business at Goldman Sachs. She also leads the PWM Sports and Entertainment Solutions (SES) offering.

Ross, who was named partner in 2020, said of her experience being promoted: “My career has been focused on working hard for our clients and our business. To be named partner in 2020, and recognized and rewarded for my hard work and dedication to the firm, was an extraordinary accomplishment.”

Identifying a Need – and Founding a Specialty Offering

Ross, who joined Goldman Sachs in 1999 after a stint at JP Morgan and business school, was focused on advising individuals and families within PWM. Over the course of her career, she honed her skills as a Private Wealth Advisor (PWA). Ross now serves as region head of the New York PWM business, and in 2018, led the effort to found the PWM Sports and Entertainment Solutions offering.

“We founded the offering with the aim of supporting the complex financial needs of athletes, entertainers and those in the industry,” Ross said. “We were confident Goldman Sachs could provide differentiated services and advice to this unique client group.”

“I always remind myself what a privilege it is to be busy doing such extraordinary work with so many incredible clients,” Ross said.

The Importance of Being “Bold” and Investing in Women

As she gained seniority throughout her career, Ross became aware of what an important role being “bold and confident” has on an individual’s career. “When I began my career, like many women, my confidence was tied to how much I thought I knew about a topic,” she said. “Now, I appreciate that there is a combination of things that are important – you have to be excellent and be a content expert, but you also need confidence in your own voice, be present and be bold, in order to be seen as a leader.”

PWM’s launch of WRAP – or Women Reaching Accelerated Potential – was referenced by Ross as one way in which the business aims to support women’s career growth. “WRAP was founded by women within PWM, for women within PWM, with the goal of helping more women become successful PWAs,” Ross said. “By connecting participants with senior PWA mentors and other senior individuals across the firm, and equipping them with the skills to be successful, we’ve had great success.” She noted that “some of PWM’s most successful advisors” are WRAP alumnae.


Ross added that as a partner, she also serves as a mentor to a greater array of individuals across the firm. “The expectation from colleagues that they have access to leadership is one of the things that is special about Goldman Sachs,” Ross said. “The opportunity to engage with more junior members of the firm and provide advice and perspectives to more people is one of the most rewarding aspects of my transition to partner.”

Delivering One Goldman Sachs to Clients

Commenting on her team’s focus on delivering “One Goldman Sachs” to clients, Ross said: “I’m very excited about the work we’re doing across the firm tied to the One Goldman Sachs initiative. We aim to bring one firm to our clients, with a seamless approach in terms of how they receive advice and guidance.”

Within PWM, Ross also shared the business hopes to “extend a sense of familiarity and community among our clients” and cultivate “authentic, trusted relationships” in order to best serve them. She noted that PWM is doing this in several ways, including by developing tailored initiatives to target select client groups.

Ross referenced the recent launch of In the Lead, a platform providing insights, resources and advice to empower ultra-high net worth women to take the lead in their wealth, philanthropy and legacy as one such initiative. She also mentioned PWM’s focus on inclusive wealth, in which the firm aims to be the advisor of choice for diverse clients. “We want to ensure that our clients feel our platform and advice is aligned to and supports their diverse interests and needs,” Ross said.

Beyond the Day-to-Day

Ross also serves as the Americas head of the firm’s Black Network. She noted the network works alongside groups throughout the firm, including Human Capital Management. The Black Network “strives to accomplish important work related to the recruitment and retention of Black professionals at the firm,” Ross said. “I’m encouraged to continue this work, particularly as the firm just announced our most diverse managing director class ever – but there’s still more work to be done.”

Outside of the office, Ross prioritizes spending time with her family. “Our hobby is being together – my children are teenagers now, and I know they’ll be off to college in a few years,” she said. “Throughout the pandemic we were able to maximize our time together, which I really valued, and continue to do so even as things are opening back up again.”

In addition, Ross serves on the Board of Trustees of the Brookings Institute, Hampton University and the United Negro College Fund.

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