Betsy Bagley: Co-Founder and Director, Pulsely

“I want to inspire people to be more curious about the impact of things rather than just defending their intent. Because when we’re curious, we are open to hearing how different people experience the workplace and the world,” says Betsy Bagley. “If you’re not even curious about how people’s backgrounds shape their experience, you won’t be able to hear that it’s not the same for us all.”

A Family of Diverse Backgrounds

Bagley grew up in a family she affectionately calls “her parents’ collected children.” Not only did she have her three biological siblings, all who went on to become college educated, but her parents also adopted two boys out of foster care and became the guardians of four orphaned children.

While all ten children came together as one family, the impact of their different backgrounds, when it came to education and their ability to thrive, was evident to Bagley even as a girl. From the start, she learned to recognize the unique skills and strengths each individual brings, and then ask what support did they need in order to fulfill their potential.

“It enabled me to witness early on that not everybody gets the same support, which means it’s not really a level playing field. Even though we all came from the same family, we started at different places and there’s only so far the family could take us,” reflects Bagley. “That made me curious about other people’s experiences and how we create a more equitable opportunity when we bring people with different backgrounds into a workplace.”

Monitor Bias by Impact Not Intent

Across her journey, Bagley has moved from working with women and their individual challenges towards working with organizations and the systemic advantages and disadvantages that inhibit equitably supporting the success of different pools of talent.

With Catalyst, she witnessed that leaders are often quick to dismiss industry research around the business case for inclusion as too disconnected to their business. So Bagley began doing bespoke research with organizations, which was powerful in influencing leaders but expensive, resource-intensive and unscalable.

In co-founding Pulsely, Bagley has created technology-based diversity, equity and inclusion measures that are accessible, fluid and actionable for all kinds of organizations. She assesses diversity (representation within a company); inclusion (whether different demographic groups feel welcome, supported and able to be authentic in the workplace); and equity (whether different demographic groups are having similar or disparate experiences of that workplace).

When it comes to how to reframe the DEI conversation to navigate it constuctively, Bagley encourages separating intent from impact.

“What you will often hear is leaders defending their intent: ‘So are you saying that we discriminate? Are you saying that we aren’t fair?’,” she summarizes. “But the opportunity is if we can recognize that despite our best intentions, our decisions sometimes have impacts that we don’t intend. It’s important to be curious about the cumulative impacts of individual decisions, along with organizational systems and policies.”

Look For Patterns Not Decisions

A previous mentor at Catalyst imparted upon Bagley that it’s important for organizations to understand that each individual talent decision can make perfect sense and be defended, at the level of each decision. But it’s the patterns of those talent decisions that you have to look at, and that’s where you see the potential for bias.

“When the patterns of your decisions consistently favor a certain demographic group, it’s important to have conversations about that,” says Bagley. “No, it’s not our intent, and yet look at the result. And what message do people who aren’t in that majority group receive?”

One piece of research Bagley finds compelling reviewed performance appraisals in the military. When looking at the objective scoring, there was no difference between men and women’s scores; it was equitable. But in subjective descriptives, the use of adjectives was incredibly different based strictly on gender – more task-oriented for men, more relationship-oriented for women. That subjective difference matters.

“These are patterns I want to shine a light on,” says Bagley. She feels that 2020 helped to do so at a collective level, so now investors, boards and employees are holding organizations more accountable for how they manage diversity and opportunity within their workforce.

Taking the Lead on Accountability

“The organizations I experience that are creating the best opportunity for progress are where the leaders are role modeling a willingness to engage in difficult conversations and admitting where they’ve made mistakes,” notes Bagley. “It’s a different place to begin the conversation.”

She cites an example during her Catalyst consulting where women at one company revealed that the word cloud differences based on performance appraisals were all derived from reviews written by women themselves (despite their own best intentions and yes, creating different outcomes).

“Instead of trying to accuse, blame and shame others, those stories that inspire real change are where people are saying we’re all part of the problem, so we all need to be a part of the solution,” says Bagley. “Those conversations where the people leading the conversation are not there to point fingers, but to be vulnerable themselves.”

Connecting the Dots to Qualify Yourself

Early in her career, Bagley shifted between positions as she moved with her husband ’s work. So when recommended for an interview at Catalyst, she didn’t have the traditional Ivy League background, impressive titles or big roles, but she was able to demonstrate why the value she brought uniquely qualified her.

“It’s your job to connect the dots in a way that makes sense for the job that you are applying for. You don’t just throw your dots out there and expect somebody else to connect them,” says Bagley. “That makes it too hard to hire you if you’re not the natural choice. You have the opportunity to connect the dots and build the story for why you’re the best candidate.”

For Catalyst, Bagley had the advantage of receiving a competency-based interview challenge related to the job, which often is more objective than a resume and helpful in qualifying non-traditional candidates.

Furthermore, she made a point of giving an evidence-based narrative of her skills and experiences, such as being entrepreneurially minded, being successful in building business through her network, and using her analytical skills to create and implement research: “I pulled different examples from different roles and projects to demonstrate the competencies that they were looking for.”

“On the other side of the table, I also need you as an interviewee to help me to make the connections with what we’re seeking,” she advises. “It can’t be so much work for me as an interviewer to figure out whether you’re the best candidate. So don’t just show up, say here I am, and wait for me to see how right you are.”

Solutions That Work For Everyone

Bagley notes that the work-from-home environment of our times has put pressure on parents and especially mothers of school-age children, though it’s hitting fathers as well. She hopes that organizations will recognize it’s not a time of individual challenge, but a call to change how we organize work to equitably support the valuable contributions of our full team of talent – such as allowing more agile and self-determined work schedules.

Also during the pandemic, she discovered that hiking is her true happy place, with her eyes set upon a move to the Blue Ridge Mountains in the future. She can also be found escaping into a great fiction novel. Investing her energy in extended family is what most feeds her soul.

By Aimee Hansen