Voice of Experience: Shana E. Ramirez, Partner, Katten

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Shana Ramirez“What makes you a good attorney is learning from your mistakes—almost that trial by fire aspect that lets you constantly grow,” says Katten’s Shana Ramirez.

Ramirez began her career in the finance area of law in New York after graduating from University of Michigan Law School. She moved to Los Angeles and worked with two firms before joining Katten as a partner in the commercial finance practice in 2018. Her experience covers a variety of financings and arrangements, including acquisition finance, leveraged finance, subordinated debt facilities, asset-based credit facilities, subscription facilities, investment grade credit facilities, transactions involving real estate and first lien/second lien transactions. Since joining Katten, she has established strong client relationships as she continues to build her practice, which she names among her most important achievements.

In addition to her work in the leveraged loan space, currently Ramirez’s work includes developing bespoke financial arrangements for private investment funds, which she has found to be challenging and interesting; as she says, it’s rewarding to work on something new in a world where most of the strategies have been done before. Specifically, she has seen exciting new trends and innovative solutions for creating leverage for private investment funds. “It will be interesting to see how private investment funds continue to find unique ways to leverage their portfolios,” she says.

Finding Balance as She Enters a New Chapter

As Ramirez points out, women often try to be the best at all their varied roles—mom, wife, caregiver or employee—and it can be hard to balance all that at any one time, given the competing demands. As she is due with her first child in early September, she has seen a lot of women go through this new life stage and knows how challenging it can be. “It takes effort to balance our desire to want to excel in all areas, including our personal lives.”

She encourages younger women to stay the course—even when it can be harder to see the path forward—especially if working in male-dominated industries. While it can be demanding and you might often feel pushed to your limits, she has found the pay-off is worth it if you stick with it rather than veering onto another path.

And she reminds women who have succeeded as attorneys to always be supportive of one another, the same way that they are the best advocates they can be for clients. She particularly appreciates when other young moms offer advice, and she is able to build a community around that commonality.

That’s why Ramirez encourages younger attorneys to foster relationships with other female attorneys and keep them strong. “You never know when your paths will cross again,” she says. “I would not be where I am without the relationships I have built,” she says, encouraging fellow attorneys to stay in touch even after they’ve left a particular firm or are no longer working together.

A Focus on Diversity and Inclusion Extends Outside Her Work Day

Ramirez is an active participant in Katten’s Women’s Leadership Forum, a women-focused group that hosts events designed to support female attorneys in their career development. “It’s a relatively smaller group, so it’s easy to get to know people better in this type of setting; as a new partner I felt very welcome,” she says, adding that they have been extremely supportive regarding her pregnancy and upcoming maternity leave.

As a diverse attorney, Ramirez has a strong history of pro bono service in Southern California, ranging from assisting domestic violence victims with U visa applications to helping families with adoption petitions. She has always felt a philanthropic tie and prioritizes giving back as a board member for Public Counsel, the largest pro bono firm in the country. Based in Los Angeles, the firm tackles issues of homelessness, adoption, consumer fraud, immigration matters and more working with its pro bono partners including Katten. “It’s important for me as a minority female partner to look out for others and the issues that are important to them.”

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Voice of Experience: Rebecca Macieira-Kaufmann, Head of International Personal Bank (IPB) U.S., Citibank

Rebecca Macieira-Kaufmann

“Be more of you.”

That’s the one piece of advice that Rebecca Macieira-Kaufmann would share above all others that she’s come across during her career. So many people try to fit into a box of what they think they need to be, she adds, but if you are true to yourself, trust your intuition, and work hard – all of the pieces will fall into place. Being yourself will give you the confidence to discover worthwhile career opportunities that will lead you to the role you were destined for, she says. “I wish I’d taken this advice myself seven to 10 years earlier. That confidence will carry you through to find the best place to be – and it’s probably in a role that you didn’t even know you could handle.”

An International Flair

Macieira-Kaufmann spent the early part of her career abroad, working in France, Finland, Hong Kong and England. As a management consultant in London she spent most of her time traveling on multinational accounts due to her language skills and international experience. After three years in London, she returned home to her native San Francisco and began working in credit card product management at First Deposit, which became Providian Financial.

From there, Macieira-Kaufmann moved to Wells Fargo to run marketing for the insurance division. Her roles expanded over time and she ended up running all of Wells Fargo’s small business segment, overseeing two million customers. This success led to an offer from Citi to become president of Citibank’s retail banking unit in California, where she combined the northern and southern region into one.

Today, 11 years into her tenure at Citi, Macieira-Kaufmann is once again in a role with international elements as the head of Citibank’s IPB U.S. group. In this role she manages the wealth needs of international clients who are based abroad and want to bank in the U.S. An enjoyable position, she is building a high-performance team and focused on nurturing talent that will succeed by working cohesively.

The common thread throughout her career has been her ability to transform divisions and companies and bring them to scale. Currently she is pursuing that same vision by helping make life easier for clients with Citibank’s growing digital capabilities; for example helping large corporations that are moving executives around the world, yet want to pay employees in dollars. “We are making it simpler and safer for our clients to bank as they desire.”

A Diverse Pipeline

Macieira-Kaufmann feels fortunate that throughout her career she has been a part of teams that are focused on people development. “It’s vital to have that supportive person who helps clear your path, and maybe even pushes you to a role you’re not sure you’re ready for,” she says, adding that women will often hesitate to jump in if they aren’t confident that they already know a role inside and out.

“You have to have a bias for action, and go for it,” she says. “Surround yourself with yaysayers, not naysayers, because they will help you go for it.” While she knows that it can be hard for executives to find the time to support and mentor women, she says it’s important to find the time.

She is particularly proud of Citi’s Women’s Diversity Initiative, within Citi’s U.S. Retail Bank and Mortgage group, which supports greater gender diversity in order to improve Citi’s teams and communities, while exploring new ways to empower women at all levels. “We want to provide more visibility into the pipeline and help women build their networks,” Macieira-Kaufmann says.

Citi’s Women’s Diversity Initiative aims to provide women within Citi more opportunities to advance their careers, while arming them with useful tools to help them achieve their goals. She adds that women may not be aware that there is an opportunity if they aren’t looking for a specific role. “We must get information out so that candidates feel like they have been tapped on the shoulder,” Macieira-Kaufmann muses. “We have to open up transparency in the recruiting pipeline to make sure that people aren’t being screened out inadvertently.”

Macieira-Kaufmann herself has been the beneficiary of a number of women’s groups, both inside and outside of the workplace. She has particularly found value in being part of the Financial Women of San Francisco, as well as a cross-industry group called the International Women’s Forum, where she’s been able to interact across industries with everyone from female pilots to authors.

A devotee of the arts, Macieira-Kaufmann plays the piano and participates in a dance class when she’s home. She also serves on the Board of Governors for the San Francisco Symphony. Although she travels extensively for business, she also enjoys personal travel and spending time with her family, including a son who is 22 and a daughter, age 20.

“I have many outlets, and that’s what allows me to be my personal best,” she says. “Every day may not be perfectly balanced, but all in all, I have a whole life.”

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Voice of Experience: Neddy Perez, Global Head of Diversity & Inclusion, Talent Management COE, McCormick & Company

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Neddy PerezWhile mentors are important, Neddy Perez also encourages women to seek sponsors.

“Mentors are great sounding boards and coaches on developmental areas; however when it comes to organizational advancement, the majority of research points to the need for women to have a sponsor. In particular, having a male sponsor accelerates the advancement of women, especially because they still hold the majority of executive level positions in corporations,” she says.

There are other factors that women need to take into consideration in managing their careers. “It is important to also think about any special assignments or projects you take on and ask, ‘where is this project leading me?’ Look for projects that are stretch assignments and that give you exposure to rising leaders or leaders who are well respected for their management capabilities.”

Pivoting to Find Her Passion

Perez started her journey as a public relations and communications professional. One of her early positions was working for UPS; at the time they were undergoing a work stoppage in Mexico and the vice president of HR decided to send her “because I spoke Spanish and people trusted me,” she says. In preparation, he covered some HR basics so she could report back properly, which was her introduction to the field.

Once she arrived she realized there had been a breakdown in policies, with the company banning religious artifacts in the environment, and the workers upset as it was an important religious holiday. She was able to satisfactorily broker a solution that allowed for religious accommodations, her boss started including her in more HR-related work and within a year she went back to school to pursue a master’s degree in international business and HR.

She was recruited by Shell Oil in Texas, where she initially supported its existing diversity function, and then ended up becoming manager of D&I for two of their businesses. She became known for her prowess in negotiating and improving difficult D&I issues, and subsequently worked with many large companies, such as Ingersoll Rand, KPMG and Sodexho. She has also done consultancy work with corporations that needed to reset their D&I strategies as a result of mergers and acquisitions or class action lawsuits and has coached companies starting new programs. She has also worked with many new Chief Diversity Officers entering the space for the first time who needed support on establishing a strategy or department.

Ultimately Perez left consulting to set up the diversity talent acquisition initiatives at TIAA, and today serves at McCormick & Company as global head of D&I. With facilities in 50 locations in 26 countries, they have a vision to double the organization, which she finds to be an exciting challenge at the forefront of finding the right diverse talent to support significant growth and creating a corporate culture that builds off existing core values but also can adapt to the changing trends of the marketplace.

Standing for STEM

In addition to a passion for D&I, Perez is focused on trying to advance STEM talent in the workplace. She first became involved while at Shell where they donated computers to communities around the world through an initiative that was ultimately recognized by the United Nations. She is also a founding member and thought leader for STEMConnector.org which has blossomed to become a stand-alone organization that connects corporations, nonprofits and colleges and universities with STEM talent.

“Getting more women into STEM and leadership is all about building pipelines for the future. We have so many jobs becoming available, but not enough of the right kind of talent to fulfill them,” she says.

And building pipelines is crucial. “One of the reasons women don’t advance more quickly is because they are not in operational roles where there is an opportunity to show a more direct impact on the business and generating revenue,” she says, adding that she might have pursued a degree in finance and accounting had she known the importance of being able to make a financial impact.

“Women are still socialized to put their heads down and work hard with the hope that someone will recognize your success. The reality is you have to become your own best advocate. As long as you feel comfortable with 70% of requirements of a job then go for it,” Perez says. “No one is ever 100% ready for their next job; we just have to get comfortable with asking for what we want and going for it.”

Perez has worked in five countries and is passionate about traveling so she has visited more 30 cities in the U.S. and around the globe. She loves photography and is passionate about mentoring the next generation of diversity leaders and women globally. In her time off, she is actively involved in serving on a number of boards for nonprofit organizations.

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Heather von Zuben, Managing Director, Consumer and Investment Management Division, Goldman Sachs

Heather von Zuben

Armed with a degree from Columbia Law School, Heather von Zuben began her law career advising on mergers and acquisitions and investment management.

However, after an initial period in law, she quickly realized that she was truly interested in being closer to clients and commercial activity.

A Career Change Leads to New Opportunities

“I found the intellectual rigor of legal work very engaging, but I wanted to be closer to my clients’ commercial objectives and help them achieve their goals, so I embarked on a career change,” says von Zuben, global head of Client Portfolio Solutions within the Alternative Investment and Manager Selection Group (AIMS). “I ultimately pursued a role at Goldman Sachs because the people I met at the firm were so dynamic and had such impressive arcs to their careers. I was excited to be a part of that and learn from them.”

Von Zuben initially joined Goldman Sachs in the Alternative Capital Markets (ACM) Group, which is responsible for product development, pipeline generation and engaging with Private Wealth Management clients on alternative investments and private placements. She was named the head of the ACM Americas business in 2014. “ACM is a fast-paced environment, and during the decade that I was a part of the team, we adapted and grew the business through significant change in client demand and market dynamics,” says von Zuben. “It was a great place to start as it gave me insight across a broad array of alternative investments as well as exposure to many different parts of the firm.”

Last year, von Zuben was named to her current position leading AIMS Client Portfolio Solutions, a self-described “stretch role” that allows her to engage with and support institutional and private wealth clients across both alternative and traditional asset classes. “As an open-architecture, multi-asset class platform, we’re able to partner with a wide range of clients collaboratively to identify their opportunities and challenges and leverage our broad range of solutions to help them achieve their unique goals,” she explains.

One of von Zuben’s current focuses is Launch With GS – Goldman Sachs’ commitment to invest $500 million in women-led companies and investment managers. In her new seat in AIMS, von Zuben introduces clients to the Launch With GS initiative and resources available across the firm as they think about integrating diversity and inclusion into their investment programs. “We think investing in diverse teams is a compelling investment proposition because diversity of thought and background leads to better decision making, and can drive outperformance and growth for our clients,” says von Zuben. “When we’re discussing Launch With GS with clients, we also have an opportunity to engage on the firm’s broader diversity and inclusion efforts as well as our clients’ diversity and inclusion objectives.”

Seeking Feedback From Others to Grow

“I’ve benefited greatly from the guidance of many mentors and sponsors over the course of my career, and I put a lot of energy into paying that forward by mentoring and engaging with the people on my team and throughout the firm,” says von Zuben. “I love connecting with the amazing people who work here: getting to know them, what motivates them, and helping them think through how to achieve their goals.”

Von Zuben recommends junior professionals develop deep relationships with others, both within their own organization and on the client side, to solicit feedback, achieve their full potential and grow as leaders. “At the beginning of my career, I was focused on executing at the top of my game more than identifying ways I could help my team be more impactful. I needed to evolve my role from that of an executor to a leader,” says von Zuben. “As I sought feedback from colleagues, I realized the importance of making that transition and adopted leadership styles and qualities from senior individuals who I admired in order to help shape, develop and define my own brand of leadership.”

Today, von Zuben continues to mentor and develop programming for colleagues across Goldman Sachs in her role as co-head of the Firmwide Women’s Network, as well as serving on the managing director advisory board of the Firmwide Hispanic/Latino Network. Her advice to others seeking to grow in their careers includes:

  • Be Confident in What You Bring to the Table: “You have to believe in yourself before you draft others onto your team – don’t waste time doubting yourself; focus on all of the lessons you’ve learned and all of the challenges you’ve overcome to this point to give you the confidence to own your space, contribute to the conversation and drive the business forward.”
  • Focus on Your Mindset: “In a constantly evolving business, change, setbacks and uncertainty are inevitable. You can’t control what comes your way, but you can control how you choose to react to it. A positive, can-do attitude can help you stay motivated, move forward and identify new potential solutions in the face of challenges.”
  • Embrace Opportunities to Step Out of Your Comfort Zone: “Make sure the work you’re doing continues to scale in terms of its impact. Take on new projects and responsibilities when they’re offered to you – even if they might be out of your comfort zone – to continue to learn and grow. ”
    Overcome the Need for Perfection: “Give yourself permission to make mistakes and to fail – if you’re waiting to be ‘perfect’ then you’re probably moving too slowly. Don’t dwell on things that don’t go your way – put your energy into finding a solution, learn the lesson for the future and move forward.”
  • Manage Your Brand: “Be deliberate and self-aware of your brand by seeking feedback from colleagues and executing on it in order to ensure that your perspective aligns with how others see your contributions.”
A Focus on Family

When she’s not in the office, you might find von Zuben cheering on her two daughters on a soccer or lacrosse field in or around New York City. “I spend every minute that I can outside of the office with my family,” she says. “We spend a lot of time exploring all that the city has to offer, from restaurants and museums to picnics or ice-skating in Central Park.” Both von Zuben and her husband are the children of immigrants, and they place a premium on traveling together as a family: “It’s important for us to take our daughters to see different parts of the world and experience different cultures to broaden their perspectives, plus we’ve had some amazing adventures together.”

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Voice of Experience: Constance A. Fratianni, Special Counsel, Katten

Constance FratianniAs a practicing lawyer since 1985, Connie Fratianni has seen a wide variety of cycles and changes.

But one thing that has not changed is the need for women to do more to mentor the women who are coming up. “We can’t forget where we came from; there are still too many women who are of the view that ‘no one helped me so I’m not going to help them,’ but that is the wrong attitude for all of us.”

As a member of Katten’s Women’s Leadership Forum (WLF), Fratianni herself tries to inspire young women attorneys. She believes that part of what has made her career so fulfilling is the bond she has developed with others in her firm, whether they worked together on the same deal or if they practiced in an area of law other than commercial finance. “That’s one of the great things about WLF; the opportunity to socialize with women outside of your own practice area. I encourage young women to take part in it.”

Juggling Responsibilities and Achieving Success

After graduating from University of Michigan School of Law, Fratianni had planned to work at a law firm in its real estate group for a couple years and then figured she would move on to a real estate company. But life didn’t quite go according to plan. She joined a law firm and found that she was doing interesting work with people whom she enjoyed. She was given the opportunity to use her broad legal knowledge to handle various transactions from bankruptcy and restructurings, to investment grade credit agreements to film financings among other interesting pursuits.

Along the way Fratianni had four children and subsequently became one of the first part-time partners at a previous firm, which is an achievement she is particularly proud of.

“I learned that it was about managing expectations; you can control the hours to a degree, but the only way you will develop your practice is by being there to serve. In that way, practicing law prepared me for motherhood, and motherhood helped me practice law better,” Fratianni says.

“The combination was both professionally and personally fulfilling. One of the things I find most gratifying was a former colleague who came up to me at an event and mentioned what an impact I had on her career many years ago. There’s nothing like seeing people I’ve mentored succeed.” Fratianni pivoted to various roles, including the global compliance attorney of a law firm, before deciding to join Katten in 2018 in its New York office.

Forging Your Own Path

Fratianni notes that success can be defined in many ways, and everyone needs to determine what that means for him or herself. “If you define success as making partner after eight years, well then, by that definition, I am a failure. In part because of my four maternity leaves, it took me longer to make partner but I eventually made it. I have four amazing kids and work I am proud of and have fun doing. To me, that is the definition of success.”

Even so, she adds that law school teaches the fundamentals but real world experience is invaluable. “It’s a harder road than it looks, and there’s always so much to learn,” she says.

Success comes from remaining true to yourself and not being afraid to speak up if your instincts tell you something is right or wrong, she says.

A Philanthropic Heart

In addition to her professional success, Fratianni finds fulfillment with philanthropic endeavors. In fact, one of her proudest achievements was working on a pro bono project to incorporate Operation Dreamseed as a tax-exempt nonprofit organization with a mission to provide school supplies to children in Afghanistan. Operation Dreamseed, founded by an Army captain, also rebuilt a school there in partnership with another philanthropic organization.

That heart for others extends to her children — two sons and two daughters who are in various life stages. Her oldest son is in his second year of a medical residency; a daughter is a special effects editor; her youngest son is a management consultant; and her youngest daughter is pursuing a nursing degree.

Deeply involved in her children’s education and activities, Fratianni helped organize hands on activities at her firm’s “take your child to work day.” She also created the role of “Working Parent Liaison” in her local PTA. In that role, she encouraged more parent friendly events at the school that were convenient for all parents working outside the home. As a Girl Scout leader, she was instrumental in starting “Operation Cookie” in her local Girl Scout council, which annually ships tens of thousands of boxes of Girl Scout cookies to service men and women overseas. “I was lucky to have healthy, self-starting kids and a supportive staff and family,” she says. “Don’t be afraid to ask for help and realize that both personal and professional fulfillment is possible.”

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Kristen Walters, Global Chief Operating Officer of Risk & Quantitative Analysis, BlackRock

Kristen WaltersWhen Kristen Walters, Managing Director at BlackRock, started her career, mentors in finance told her that she needed to learn accounting because it was the “language of business” at the time.

Studying accounting gave her an entry into finance with a technical skill that opened the door to a long career. “Today’s technical language is computer science and coding,” says Ms. Walters, advising young women to make sure their technical backgrounds include math and programming skills.

“What was true when I started my career remains applicable now. Women should consider technical fields where there is growth and a long runway.” While she believes it is imperative to study a discipline with broad applicability, Ms. Walters acknowledges that successful careers often include an element of luck, coupled with a strong work ethic and intellectual curiosity. She has also benefited from male and female mentors who have helped guide her career and give her opportunities to learn and grow.

Building a Solid Career in the Field of Risk

These principles have served Ms. Walters well. After graduating with a degree in accounting and economics at the University of Massachusetts at Amherst, she started her career as a financial analyst in Supervision and Regulation at the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston.

At the time, there was a significant banking crisis in the Northeast, and she was able to spend time “in the foxhole” and learn valuable risk management skills that are difficult to learn in normal market conditions. She spent more than five years at the Fed learning about interest rate, credit and liquidity risk in lending and securities portfolios, while earning her MBA in finance at Babson College. In 1993, she joined KPMG’s financial services consulting practice, where she focused on risk management engagements working for a PhD Economist who was Paul Volker’s right-hand man when he was the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board.

She eagerly embraced the opportunity to learn derivatives and spent the next several years working with cross-functional teams on risk assessments for large international banks with trading operations in the United States. She notes that in the mid-90s, risk management was not an established sector and she was lucky to find an opportunity to combine her quantitative skills with her ability to communicate and understand financial markets. “I worked closely with financial modelers who typically had advanced degrees in applied math. KPMG’s quants would explain complex models to me, and I would communicate how the models worked with traders, risk managers and boards of directors,” she says. “They needed someone to help translate complex valuation and risk concepts to clients, and even though I am not a mathematician, I am analytical with a grounding in stats and calculus, so I was able to learn how models worked with guidance from colleagues with technical expertise.”

Ms. Walters has been a risk manager ever since, including a challenging period helping to manage firm-wide market risk at Goldman Sachs during the financial crisis. “It was a ‘trial by fire’ time, where everyone had to stay composed under a tremendous amount of pressure,” she says, adding that she led the first Fed stress testing exercise for the market risk team.

Ms. Walters has worked at BlackRock for 10 years focusing on risk management and analytics. She is currently the Chief Operating Officer of the firm’s global risk management function, where her team leverages BlackRock’s Aladdin trading and risk management system. And, she is currently working with software developers and risk managers to enhance risk management capabilities in Aladdin. She has helped provide risk managers with tools to code in Python to build libraries to access data in Aladdin directly, a trend she has observed occurring across the industry. “It is very exciting because data and technology systems used to be prohibitively expensive with a big learning curve. The advent of big data and open source technology, along with increased computing power, has made data and technology cheaper and more accessible.”

Using Resources to Navigate the Business

Ms. Walters noted that over the years her development focus changed—in her 20s and 30s it was easier to advance with the right technical and communication skills, combined with tenacity. But the work environment becomes more complicated once you reach the age of 40 and above, because your influencing skills need to improve markedly when you start to take on leadership positions.

“There is an element of needing to adapt to the team; I am outspoken and candid and that worked earlier in my career, but when you become more senior, particularly in a male-dominated space, you have to remember that what you say is not always as important as how you say it.” And, the bar is higher for women relative to technical skills, competency and communication and influencing skills.

Navigating male-dominated environments has presented challenges, but she appreciates groups like the Women’s Leadership Forum at BlackRock which provided leadership training and peer networks to add to her toolkit. She says that in the mid-90s, conscious bias against women was relatively common, although she rarely personally experienced it. She thinks this is because she was good at selecting companies and managers who were supportive and open-minded. Today, gender bias issues can be difficult to raise because most men are genuinely and consciously trying to develop diverse teams. And, they are often unaware of “unconscious” biases they are exhibiting.

Ms. Walters noted that many of her male colleagues are actively trying to foster diverse and inclusive teams. She has also found that establishing a strong network of women is critical to success in the finance sector. While not every company provides that type of support, she encourages younger women to establish their own networks. “Many women hesitate to ask, but they might be surprised how willing both men and women are to help,” she says, noting that when she has reached out to senior people, 90 percent of the time they have been happy to spend time and help—and she now does the same.

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Voice of Experience: Kathy Jordan, Chief Compliance Officer, US Consumer Banking, Citi

Kathy Jordan headshot
“When I look back on my career, I didn’t follow a linear path in one field because I was always open to opportunity when it knocked,” says Citi’s Kathy Jordan.

“If you’re willing to take a risk and give it a go, great things can happen.” That advice has followed her along the winding path from her first job as a Citibank teller, which helped pay for college, to her most recent promotion overseeing compliance for all of Citi’s U.S. consumer banking businesses.

The key is to take on growth opportunities as they arise, even if it’s not precisely within your field, Jordan says. “Opportunities are there,” she says. “Just remember that even when it doesn’t feel like it will be an easy or familiar road, it can still be a path to opportunity. Just set your sights on the goal, and give it all you have, without worrying that it might not be attainable.”

“Don’t limit yourself to one field if the chance arises to do something else that might be just as fulfilling,” she says, noting that this is increasingly true as you move into more senior level positions.

Windows of Opportunity

Jordan went to college with initial plans of becoming a doctor, but she soon shifted her focus to finance and became a banker, before attending law school and eventually working her way back into financial services and becoming a compliance officer.

She left her law firm to join the in-house counsel team with a former client, a boutique bank, where she focused mainly on mortgage issues. This led to an offer to take an in-house legal position at Citibank that gave her a chance to work more broadly across the entire consumer banking business. It was at Citi, in the early 2000s, that she made her biggest jump as changing regulations led banks to create dedicated compliance teams, separating roles that had previously been overseen by the in-house legal teams. “I wasn’t sure just what I was getting myself into, it wasn’t a clear path, but I saw an opportunity to make my mark in something new so I went for it,” she said.

In general, she suggests that you keep an eye out for new opportunities as industries shift. “You have to determine what is in demand and think more broadly about your career,” she says. “There’s no perfect answer to what jobs you should take along the way. The job you take at one moment might not be your dream job, but it may help you get there.”

Finding Advocates To Grow Your Career

“There are always people out there who can help you when you’re struggling—whether it’s with a specific problem or a career change,” says Jordan. She realizes the importance of finding those champions, and says she rarely makes a move without consulting with people who have her best interests at heart while bringing different perspectives. “Even when you’re starting out, it’s critical to find a circle of advisors who have more experience, whom you can call upon for input.”

It’s also incumbent upon women to share their successes, she says, adding that women don’t always speak as freely about their accomplishments as men. “I have had to work on owning my success,” Jordan says. “Modesty is important, but candor is better.”

She shares that recommendation with other women both at Citi and outside of the bank.

The retail bank has a robust program designed to reach minorities and people of color to motivate them toward larger roles.

Jordan looks back on the role her family played in her career with appreciation, and says she currently spends a lot of time with her parents. “I want to make sure they’re happy, as they sacrificed a lot for me,” she says. “Although neither of my parents had the opportunity to go to college, it was extremely important to them that I had the chance – and they structured everything to make my higher education a priority.”

Musically inclined, Jordan loves the opera and plays the organ in her spare time. “For many years I played in church congregations,” she says. “It is very soothing and helps melt away the stress of the day.”

This summer, Jordan was also named a member of the Banking Law Committee of the New York City Bar Association. This affiliation gives her an opportunity to step back and refresh her legal contacts, while becoming involved in discussions with senior lawyers across New York about cutting edge issues in banking law.

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Voice of Experience: Maddi Dessner, Managing Director, JPMorgan Chase & Co.

Maddi Dessner featured“Don’t let society constrain your path,” she says, acknowledging that sometimes there is still a lack of support for women entering into the more male-dominated aspects of their industry.

“You have to express interest in new challenges, and remember that most good leaders want to hear what you want to do so they can help your career head the right direction. So be vocal about what you need, whether you’re looking for experience in leadership, global exposure in your firm or experience speaking in front of people.”

Finding Satisfaction in Helping Others

Dessner has spent 24 years with JP Morgan, starting on the floor trading FX options and emerging markets equities, then more recently moving into client-facing roles. Today she leads a group in charge of supporting asset management in the Americas.

“Given that I work in an investment team, my biggest professional achievement is helping people invest well and retire comfortably,” Dessner says, which includes working with them to develop an asset allocation that will deliver a secure retirement. “I am always thinking about the individual who is investing with us and focusing on delivering successful retirement outcomes.”

Given society’s changing demographics, Dessner finds that it’s even more important today than 10 to 15 years ago to help her clients maximize their savings, since many are not sufficiently prepared and need to understand that they can’t invest out of a savings gap.

Being Your Own Advocate For Career Success

Women don’t always raise their hands the same way that men do, notes Dessner. “I probably wasn’t as forceful as I could have been about guiding my career, and I’m lucky to be at an organization that understands how to help people grow a career. While I know I’ve been fortunate to have had that invisible hand guiding my path, that’s not always the case, and it’s crucial for women to advocate for themselves.”

To that end she advises that women build a network and make it part of their job to tend it, suggesting that women devote 10 to 15 percent of every week to ensure they are creating a broader network than just those inside their immediate team. “Keeping your internal and external relationships fresh will propel you forward.”

She also suggests that women not shy away from being candid—that letting colleagues into your whole self while you’re at work is an important part of being a leader.

While she used to feel hesitant to share struggles, as she feared they could show weakness, Dessner now sees that acknowledgement as coming from a positon of strength, proving that you can navigate challenges in your life.

It also brings you closer to your team, she says. “They know there’s a human they can connect with, and people appreciate that. It’s not about oversharing but connecting to people authentically. Rather than keeping everything inside, own the steps in your journey that have brought you to where you are.”

In addition, Dessner recommends evolving your skill set to make sure you’re up on industry trends—and then make sure you ask for what you’re worth. Those are the kinds of skills that can be cultivated in networking groups and in the past, she has served as co-chair of JP Morgan’s Women on the Move program which helps aspiring professionals make connections globally.

Any spare time Dessner has is devoted to her family—boy and girl twins, age 12, and she has found they are at delightful ages to explore activities together, such as travel and philanthropy. They also engage in interesting discussions—such as a recent one where she astounded them by explaining that women didn’t always have the right to vote. “This is an exciting age to parent, where it’s less manual labor and more about helping with guidance and shaping.”

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Voice of Experience: Kathy Matsui, Vice Chair, Global Investment Research, Goldman Sachs

Kathy MatsuiIn the years since she was first profiled by The Glass Hammer in 2013, Matsui’s role at Goldman Sachs has evolved – while she continues to focus on Japan portfolio strategy, she also serves as vice chair of Goldman Sachs Japan.

Her responsibilities in this role include representing the firm in various external activities, including serving on government advisory committees and speaking at conferences, where she is regularly asked to comment on Japan’s stock market and macro economy. However, Matsui notes that “the main core of my job hasn’t changed – I still publish research and meet with clients regularly.”

During her undergraduate years at Harvard, Matsui developed an interest in international affairs and government policy, and initially planned to pursue a career in the foreign service. After her first internship experience within the Bureau of Intelligence and Research of the State Department, she earned a master’s degree from Johns Hopkins University, spent time in Japan where she met her husband, then worked for several years at Barclays de Zoete Wedd in investment research before joining Goldman Sachs in 1994. Commenting on the arc of her career to date, Matsui says: “Despite giving up on the foreign service, my career as a research analyst has ironically allowed me to make a contribution to the gender diversity movement in Japan and help drive change in this important space.”

The Worst Advice I’ve Ever Received

As a junior analyst, Matsui was told to ‘work hard, keep your head down, and you will go far.’ Today, she says: “This was the worst advice I could have been given as a woman just beginning her career, but when I first began working the idea that an ‘invisible hand’ would simply promote you was widespread.”

Matsui recommends that junior women focus on doing their job well, but also engage in networking in order to educate senior stakeholders on their role. “Aside from excelling in one’s job, women need to also identify mentors, connect with others across their organization, and share their accomplishments.”

Overcoming Unimaginable Obstacles

A year after making partner at Goldman Sachs, Matsui was diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 36. “I had no symptoms, and I was in denial that I was sick – with two young children at home,” she says. “I took eight months off work for surgery, chemotherapy and radiation, and during this period my family and I felt the full support of the firm. This level of support is one of the reasons why I’ve been at Goldman Sachs for 25 years.”

Empowering Other Women to Succeed

In addition to the research she conducts tied to women in the workforce, Matsui is a board member of the Asian University for Women (AUW) Support Foundation. The Foundation provides funding to AUW, a liberal arts, women-only university in Bangladesh that educates individuals that are the first to attend college in their family.

“Working with the AUW ties into my personal passion for women’s empowerment, and the key to empowerment is education,” she notes. “If you want to effect change and take on a leadership role in your community, you really need to have a tertiary education beyond secondary school – and this university is helping empower women around the world.”

Evolving Role, Evolving Research

Matsui, who was ranked number one in Japan Equity Strategy by Institutional Investor multiple times, initially became interested in examining the demographic challenges Japan’s economy faced after seeing many of her peers remain at home after having children. “Japan has faced acute challenges because there are widespread unconscious biases and gender role stereotypes throughout the country,” explains Matsui. “I experienced this firsthand when a lot of my Japanese friends who were new moms did not return to work in the same way I did due to various factors.”

Matsui thus began to delve deep into the “structural challenges” that were affecting the Japanese economy, including identifying potential solutions that could be enacted by the government to spur greater female representation in the workplace. In the initial 1999 Womenomics report, Matsui and her team recommended the government institute enhanced labor laws, expand childcare facilities, and revise the tax structure, while corporations should provide additional childcare support and clear maternity leave policies. In addition, Matsui called on ‘male champions’ and other women to make it more “socially acceptable to participate in the workforce while having a family.”

In Womenomics 5.0, Matsui revisits the progress that has been made in the last 20 years to boost female workplace participation in Japan, noting that the participation rate has increased to 71 percent, surpassing that of the US (66 percent). In the report, Matsui again makes recommendations for the public and private sectors, as well as society overall:

  • Government policy: more flexible labor contracts, gender pay gap disclosures, tax reforms, parliamentary gender quotas, promotion of female entrepreneurship and looser immigration rules.
  • Corporations: proactive career management, more flexible work environments, performance-based evaluations, gender target-setting and male diversity champions.
  • Societal shifts: avoid gender role stereotypes in the media and promote more women in STEM.

Reflecting on the progress made in Japan in the last 20 years, Matsui says: “There have been definite areas of progress, but there is still significant work to do to elevate women into leadership positions.”

Learn more by listening to an Exchanges at Goldman Sachs podcast featuring Kathy Matsui: “Is Womenomics Working?”

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Voice of Experience: Mariana Bush, Research Director, Wells Fargo Investment Institute

Mariana BushOver the years, Mariana Bush has been proud of the clarity she’s been able to provide to advisors around the complex issues in the funds she covers.

It was a lesson learned the hard way in the early-‘90s, when she realized that sophisticated investors didn’t fully understand leveraged closed-end funds.

When short- and long-term interest rates unexpectedly rose, and these fund buyers had never experienced the negative aspect of leverage, she “was ready to move to another city, change jobs and career,” she says, with a laugh in hindsight. She moved to Washington DC, but the experience instead colored everything she’s done since, which means she is more careful than ever to make sure that people understand the risks they are getting into.

“While most investment options are unique and offer benefits, potential investors also need to understand the risks and carefully consider whether they can tolerate what can happen in a worst-case scenario,” Bush says, adding that not even 2008 felt as painful as 1994. “And now I have the confidence that I’ve been through several cycles of closed-end fund stress periods and can identify when closed-end fund investors have probably overreacted creating an opportunity for investors, but only if they can handle the accompanying risks.”

She finds that lesson extends to work life in general; in fact, sometimes investors aren’t sure which questions they should be asking, she says. Having answered thousands of inquiries on closed-end funds from financial advisers over the years, sometimes she clarifies for them what they should be asking for. She finds that women are often more likely to ask for explanations, rather than being afraid to ask questions in a meeting or conference call.

One Firm, Many Names and Many Experiences

Bush’s career path has been straightforward, yet never boring. She has specialized in research since graduating from college 30 years ago, and with the exception of the first two years of her career has been with the same company, albeit with multiple names.

“I wish I had kept my business cards because while I have been at the same firm since 1991, my business cards have gone through six firm names,” she says. The most recent move was from Wells Fargo Advisors to the Wells Fargo Investment Institute, and while she says her team is still adapting to their new home, she’s excited about the strengths that will be realized by combining the benefits of the team’s new and old “homes.” “We’re combining them to create a 1+1=3 situation,” Bush says.

Describing the many transitions as a “whirlwind,” she says she has learned a lot from everyone, including that there was likely to be another one each time one was complete—even when joining Wells Fargo, one of the largest financial institutions in the world.

“The lesson learned is that there is always change and will continue to be, and during each transition you just need to focus on what you know you need to do,” Bush says. “Rather than wasting time fretting, we have to focus on what we can control and just do what we need to do every day. And if you always put the client first, ultimately that will take you in the right direction.”

Bush also has found that her curiosity has taken her interesting places; for example as she is from Peru, early in her career she would often ask about Latin American closed-end funds, and one day the Director of Research asked her to cover closed-end funds, not only those with a Latin America exposure. “It was hard—much like being thrown into the lion’s den— and I had to learn about them solo.” A few years later, the financial advisers started asking her about exchange-traded funds (ETFs) because they assumed she would know about those relatively new vehicles for the simple reason that they traded on an exchange, just like the closed-end funds that she was already familiar with. But as she started asking questions about these ETFs, she realized the only people who knew about them were a few traders, so she took it upon herself to learn more about this vehicle that has become a disruptive technology in the investment world, realizing that the more knowledge you gain, the more valuable you are to the team.

Setting a Good Example

While she sees that women usually continue to take over the heavier burden for family care, Bush believes things are changing and hopes the pace accelerates. “My husband is progressive, and I expect that our daughters’ spouses will be even more so,” she notes.

She advises that women make time for themselves, both physically and mentally, as we need steady energy to keep us going. “Whatever your grandmother told you still matters: Eat nutritiously, get enough sleep, and exercise,” Bush says.

As a board member and currently chair of the finance committee of her daughters’ all-girls school, the National Cathedral School, she finds the appointment gives her energy as she applies the skills she’s learned at work to the school, and is also able to take best practices from school back to her work. “It’s been so inspirational to see what these young women accomplish, and often I benefit from their wise advice,” Bush says.

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